23 replies to this topic

[LiveSpartan235]

https://www.guildwar...vember-12-2013/

Quote

November 12, 2013

Enter the Tower of Nightmares

The dark tower in Kessex Hills has been breached! Now is the time to storm the tower and begin setting things to rights. Within the morbid stronghold of the Toxic Alliance, you’ll find new dangers, new challenges, and come face-to-face with terror incarnate.

• Rock the Nightmare
  
  Create your own Guild Wars 2 music video using our all-new “The Nightmares Within” song. The most creative video creators will win SteelSeries gaming gear, and the grand prize winner will receive a unique custom Guild Wars 2 guitar from Sygnus Guitars – there isn’t another one like it on Earth or Tyria! Learn More
  
• Developer Livestream – November 13
  
  Take an inside look at the November 12 release with ArenaNet devs during a livestream on our Twitch channel on Wednesday, November 13, at 12PM PST.
  
• Lingering Poison
  
  You may have found a way into the Toxic Alliance’s inner sanctum, but this has by no means curtailed their nefarious activities! Kessex Hills and the surrounding countryside are still befouled by the alliance’s evil presence!
  
• Face the Nightmares Within
  
  Enter rooms within the Tower of Nightmares to brave special encounters—but beware! Things are not all as they seem. You can never know what awaits you within these dark rooms. Will you find yourself face-to-face with Scarlet’s agents, or a much more insidious enemy? It’ll take strength, determination, and a cool head to survive the trials that await you.
  
• The End of Nightmares?
  
  Marjory Delaqua has developed a special antitoxin to put an end to the deadly plant at the heart of the tower, but the first team dispatched to inject it never returned… Fight your way to the upper chamber in a last-ditch battle to destroy the toxic menace!

Rewards


Antitoxic Fashion

Complete the meta achievement for The Nightmares Within to unlock a special Gasmask Skin! As the latest design in air purification and toxin prevention, the Gasmask is a universal skin that can be applied to any piece of head armor.


Exclusive New Looks

Complete your wardrobe with an Air Filtration Device—a dry-land version of the starter aquatic helm—or the Toxic Spore back item!


Brand-New Minis!

Two new Toxic Krait miniatures are on the loose! You have a chance to pick up one from Toxic Alliance foes you destroy, and the other can be earned by killing a very special enemy, hidden deep in the heart of the Tower of Nightmares.


Tri-Key Chest

The Tri-Key Chest holds a chance for special treasures. Collect the three keys to open it from foes within the tower, or barter for them with Marjory’s Helper, Dee. Open the chest to see what lies inside!

[CriticKitten]

Wow, this may be the first release to have zero redeeming qualities.  Usually I can point to one thing and say "that sure sounds wonderful" but this release has NOTHING.

1) ANet tried to make a "metal" theme for their release, and I just threw up a bit in my mouth while thinking about that.  If it shows up in-game, I may play the entire release with the sound off.  That is not good metal.  That's someone who thinks they're a hardcore metal artist trying to write metal.  It's random strummings on an electric guitar.

2) The masks look ugly.

3) Minis don't interest me in the slightest, so trying to lure me to a secret boss with promises of a mini isn't going to work unless there are AP attached to it.

4) Every single reward chest in the game "holds a chance for special treasures".  You can't possibly get me excited for a rewards chest without telling me what the hell you put inside it, especially when it takes three keys to open AND it sounds like it'll be a pain in the ass to get them all.

I'm stunned.  Not one single thing that I can point to and say "this update has me excited for this reason".  It's the most vague release post yet, and what they did choose to reveal....contains nothing that interests me.  If there weren't a meta and AP attached to this release, I'd probably just skip it altogether.

[Heylo]

That song had me busting out laughing. I'm not super interested in much in this next update, if anything.

[Gatita]

With the reveal for ToN, I was curious at first, but with it being confirmed Scarlet (no I honestly wasn't surprised) pulled a new alliance out of her magical bag of tricks, my attention gradually dropped. This current update has been a snooze fest and I'm not looking forward to the next release. The teaser reads like Aether TA 2.0...
I'm having more fun getting killed in WvW than the recent LS.

Also, the music for the trailer makes me laugh, it just does not go at all.

[CriticKitten]

Someone found music that fits the trailer better than that shitty metal they wrote for it.

[UltraEM]

Now I want them to make a video of Scarlet dancing to "Toxic."

[Reina Takayama]

I'm excited for the masks honestly cuz I have this sci-fi trooper look for my warrior and had been looking for a sci fi helmet and then voila they give me this

I'm excited about the actual tower bc I'm hoping for some open world explorable content like instea of one big dungeon it says u can enter diff rooms and see what you face if that's true then perhaps you can kinda climb n explore around this tower freely like a giant maze and Jp that's vertical! I've missed verticality that happens in other games I loved bazaar of four winds partly cuz the map was so fun to climb up n see epic scenery

I'm interested in what that creature behind scarlet is bc it looks different than anything we know

if I am to be optimistic I hope the creature is something related to ancient gw1 or pre gw1 races or a dragon minion or something .... but that's too optimistic

this update is interesting to me bc of the lore, scarlet finally puts something huge right in the middle perhaps just like krait obelisk ascension stuff it is trying to gain the power to open portals or rifts between dimensions which seems to be what scarlet has always been doing (aetherblades , steam creatures , etc) krait religion and obelisks seem to suggest they have prophets that ascended which we believe to be the Forgotten. the priory scholar u help hater obelisk shards mentions it is the similar material or structure or magic qualities as the Bloodstones and mentions the Seers. a npc Right in the open talking bout that is a good sign that they have big things in store that point us to the right core lore

we shouldn't get so disappointed though it's frustrating and not executed well, we only receive tiny tiny fragments of an entire puzzle and big picture that is happening mostly behind the scenes withou us knowing. which makes sense bc there's no way we would know everything or be able to follow scarlets every move and can only respond late to what we directly see from her actions

and yeah the music sucks lol I like metalcore and rock and diff forms of music but it's just so cheesy and old school sounding and doesn't fit the video or the theme

[CriticKitten]

Reina Takayama, on 06 November 2013 - 09:55 AM, said:

-snip-

My problem is that the execution thus far is TERRIBLE.

The tower looks lopsided and ridiculously constructed.  The alliance makes no sense, and just as it didn't work for the Molten Alliance, it also falls flat here, resulting in two factions joining forces and not developing as individuals at all.  We learn nothing new about the Nightmare Court OR the krait here, as they're glossed over so that Scarlet can have all the spotlight.  All of the bad guys' unique motivations and history are lost in a blurred mess, and all evil factions join forces despite having no reason to do so.  And the story focuses on a handful of characters who, let's face it, aren't really all that interesting due to having limited personality and little-to-no backstory of their own.

Here, let me explain precisely how I would've done this storyline, and you can tell me if you think what they did was really the best execution or not.

I would've made the tower actually look like a standard krait obelisk, and would've tossed all relations to Scarlet and the Nightmare Court.  Instead, it's just "oh look, player, this giant tower was hidden by mesmer magic in the middle of the lake!  Wonder what it means?", and then the entire meta for that first release would have focused on exploring the krait religion in great depth and the significance of the krait obelisks, revealing all of our OOC knowledge in the game world.  As the weeks progressed, more obelisks would start to pop up in other maps, too, indicating the growing threat.

Then this week's release would involve the activation of said obelisks, and the full-scale invasion of the krait prophets and their armies, forcing numerous different factions (good and evil) to fight off the xenophobic krait.  This would allow players to not only fight with the help of factions that are known allies, but would also allow them to fight alongside factions that they would normally not lift a finger to help (the Nightmare Court, dredge, etc).  In the process, we'd get to learn about them, they about us, and there'd be more general knowledge and a greater breadth of characters across the game.

Do you really feel that the way they're doing it is better than that?  I don't.

They're botching their lore, their characters, and their world with this ridiculous focus on Scarlet (who knows way too much and still has way too little of an actual character) and by having all of their unique "evil" factions joining forces as if they're all best friends.  Their "Living World" doesn't feel even slightly realistic as a result, because factions simply do not interact with each other this way in the real world.  I'm acutely aware that the story I'm witnessing is something that someone wrote for the sake of broad appeal, and it doesn't feel at all alive.  I know that MMOs aren't usually good with story, but the story was supposed to be one of GW2's selling points, and right now, it's definitely not.

[Reina Takayama]

CriticKitten, on 06 November 2013 - 04:11 PM, said:

My problem is that the execution thus far is TERRIBLE.

The tower looks lopsided and ridiculously constructed.  The alliance makes no sense, and just as it didn't work for the Molten Alliance, it also falls flat here, resulting in two factions joining forces and not developing as individuals at all.  We learn nothing new about the Nightmare Court OR the krait here, as they're glossed over so that Scarlet can have all the spotlight.  All of the bad guys' unique motivations and history are lost in a blurred mess, and all evil factions join forces despite having no reason to do so.  And the story focuses on a handful of characters who, let's face it, aren't really all that interesting due to having limited personality and little-to-no backstory of their own.

Here, let me explain precisely how I would've done this storyline, and you can tell me if you think what they did was really the best execution or not.

I would've made the tower actually look like a standard krait obelisk, and would've tossed all relations to Scarlet and the Nightmare Court.  Instead, it's just "oh look, player, this giant tower was hidden by mesmer magic in the middle of the lake!  Wonder what it means?", and then the entire meta for that first release would have focused on exploring the krait religion in great depth and the significance of the krait obelisks, revealing all of our OOC knowledge in the game world.  As the weeks progressed, more obelisks would start to pop up in other maps, too, indicating the growing threat.

Then this week's release would involve the activation of said obelisks, and the full-scale invasion of the krait prophets and their armies, forcing numerous different factions (good and evil) to fight off the xenophobic krait.  This would allow players to not only fight with the help of factions that are known allies, but would also allow them to fight alongside factions that they would normally not lift a finger to help (the Nightmare Court, dredge, etc).  In the process, we'd get to learn about them, they about us, and there'd be more general knowledge and a greater breadth of characters across the game.

Do you really feel that the way they're doing it is better than that?  I don't.

They're botching their lore, their characters, and their world with this ridiculous focus on Scarlet (who knows way too much and still has way too little of an actual character) and by having all of their unique "evil" factions joining forces as if they're all best friends.  Their "Living World" doesn't feel even slightly realistic as a result, because factions simply do not interact with each other this way in the real world.  I'm acutely aware that the story I'm witnessing is something that someone wrote for the sake of broad appeal, and it doesn't feel at all alive.  I know that MMOs aren't usually good with story, but the story was supposed to be one of GW2's selling points, and right now, it's definitely not.

your execution of it would be epic and great but that also won't work in terms of lore as it wouldn't be leading us towards the core game lore and final destination or destinations we want to head to. it would make it only have to do with krait and be a completely different storyline. our core goals are the dragons and atm scarlet does somehow relate to the dragons most likely we just don't know how yet but she obviously knows about the dragons and stuff going on and her backstory shows that she learned a lot about the world in her vision

it would be important to keep to this scarlet lore thing if they feel it is what will bring our lore towards the main goals however most scarlets backstory and info is still unknown and behind the scenes and her personality isn't so believable bc she's too much of an archetype

apparently the whole rifts between dimensions is also a reoccurring theme in gw bc there's the mists thaumanova fractals underworld like in Queensdale steam creatures and onwards that already exis in te game so scarlet does follow the main core lore and tries to bring it together

the alliances also are annoying bc of poor execution and elaboration and is too abrupt but I'm pretty sure krait are not dumb either and someone has mentione how they were pushed out by the sea dragon and left with nothing not even their religious obelisks which are in deep sea and having to fight against other race that obviously hate their guts. meanwhile scarlet seems to have a cunning scheme and they can benefit from it. as much as they hate other races they may be going with it for now until they can be powerful on their own like there is so much backstory and motives and motivations and we don'teven know what scarlet has to basically hold these factions hostage or benefit them enough to bring them in

my hopes is they will address all that and we will find out in time and then realize how it makes sense.
think back to the last updates everything we have so far is very slow but it is giving us some revelation and speculation that oh this is going somewhere scarlet isn't just a random villain that won't have anything to do with the lore. there is some movement and direction but not clear and not well executed. character personalities and all is poor as well

[J053pH]

CriticKitten, on 05 November 2013 - 04:35 PM, said:

Wow, this may be the first release to have zero redeeming qualities.  Usually I can point to one thing and say "that sure sounds wonderful" but this release has NOTHING.

1) ANet tried to make a "metal" theme for their release, and I just threw up a bit in my mouth while thinking about that.  If it shows up in-game, I may play the entire release with the sound off.  That is not good metal.  That's someone who thinks they're a hardcore metal artist trying to write metal.  It's random strummings on an electric guitar.

2) The masks look ugly.

3) Minis don't interest me in the slightest, so trying to lure me to a secret boss with promises of a mini isn't going to work unless there are AP attached to it.

4) Every single reward chest in the game "holds a chance for special treasures".  You can't possibly get me excited for a rewards chest without telling me what the hell you put inside it, especially when it takes three keys to open AND it sounds like it'll be a pain in the ass to get them all.

I'm stunned.  Not one single thing that I can point to and say "this update has me excited for this reason".  It's the most vague release post yet, and what they did choose to reveal....contains nothing that interests me.  If there weren't a meta and AP attached to this release, I'd probably just skip it altogether.

MY GOD... you said it all! .... srsly this update is crap.

[CriticKitten]

Reina Takayama, on 06 November 2013 - 05:58 PM, said:

-snip-

What makes you think she has anything to do with the dragons?  Seriously, I want to know.  There is no evidence thus far that any of her antics have anything to do with them.

For all we know, she may have nothing to do with them and is primarily acting as the "filler" villain who keeps us busy in between major dragon-related releases.  In fact, right now that's my operating assumption, because there's really nothing pointing her to the dragons at all.  Look at all of her minions and their allied factions, notice anything amiss?  Like the fact that none of them involve dragon minions at all?  Her servants are all members of "evil" factions that aren't really allied with the dragons, they're just bad guys taking advantage of the chaos of the times.  She's recruited the steam creatures, Inquest, pirates, the Nightmare Court, the Flame Legion, the krait, the dredge, etc.  So basically every single non-draconic "evil" faction in the game.

There's really nothing in-game pointing to her link with the dragons right now, and unless that changes, it's going to seem awfully out of left field for her to suddenly go "SURPRISE, I was working for the dragons all along!".  Especially since the dragons don't even work with each other.

Also: There's absolutely nothing wrong with having a storyline that doesn't involve the dragons OR Scarlet.  In fact, those are often people's favorite releases.

That's the primary problem with their big story releases right now, they all involve Scarlet.  And so people are getting sick of her.  Every new release teaches us nothing new about her, except that they only further the belief that she knows way too many things and has seemingly no "weaknesses".  She's not developing as a character, but she's hogging literally every single story release.  Even the devs have admitted that not enough detail has gone into revealing anything about her, and that they're "working on it".  That was months ago, and we still know jack shit about her.  Why are we supposed to care about her when we know nothing about her?  So far as they've told us, she's a villain just because she wants to screw with people, and I'm pretty sure they have brothels somewhere in Tyria if that's all she wants.

Something that a good writer learns to do right away is not to always write the exact same story and/or the exact same setting 24/7.  You start running dry on ideas, your fans get tired of the same old thing repeating itself, and it all burns out.  That's what is happening to GW2 now.  People are tired of this same old show, and it's following the same pattern every single time.
1) Completely unrelated factions that have literally no reason to join forces (or worse, would NEVER join forces for any reason) suddenly decide to join forces because Scarlet made them into best friends.
2) We kick their asses.
3) Scarlet pops up and laughs at us about how she'll get us next time, like a Scooby Doo villain.
4) Repeat 1-3 until the entire player base commits seppuku.

The "Molten Alliance" (dredge + Flame Legion).
The "Aetherblades" (pirates + Inquest).
Now the "Toxic Alliance" (krait + Nightmare Court).

And of those, two of them (Molten and Toxic) make absolutely no sense given the lore surrounding their membership.  The dredge are fiercely against the very same policies the Flame Legion embraces, and the krait are xenophobic and hate all land-dwelling races.  Yet, here they are, holding hands like best friends do.

I'll just go ahead and predict that the next alliance will involve the Separatists and the Renegades.  We can call it the "WTF Writers?!? Alliance".

People are sick and tired of Scarlet already.  It's time to start having a few more detours.  That's what they should be doing right here, with the krait.  Instead, they tied it to Scarlet, set up yet another stupid alliance, and (what a shock) a lot of people hate this release as a result of that.

Look at all of the most popular releases in the last year and you'll notice a theme between all of them: they didn't have a big overarching Scarlet-related storyline to them.  Halloween was hugely popular.  Cutthroat Politics got a decently warm reception, as did the Sanctum itself.  People have adored the SAB releases, and Wintersday was popular (though not as much as Halloween).  They all had their own storylines, people enjoyed that break, and it allowed us to sit back and enjoy something different.

They need to have the balls to take a step in new directions.  As bad as Southsun is, I at least respect the writers involved in its Living Story for having the courage to avoid tying it to Scarlet.  Ditto the SAB writers.  When one villain hogs too much spotlight, people get tired of them.  Time for a change.

[Reina Takayama]

CriticKitten, on 06 November 2013 - 08:07 PM, said:

snip

The alliances don't seem dragon related at all indeed, some have said they're trying to do the opposite of the PACT sort of uniting races/factions/orders etc. But alliances out of mind, Scarlet herself is speculated to do with dragons, (anet also did say they are working towards dragons and haven't put it aside) because one of the most popular theories with some evidence backing it, is that the sylvari, especially the Nightmare Court or maybe vice versa has to do with the awakening of the Forest Dragon. Not sure if you've read up on it, but

1) sylvari cannot be corrupted by other dragon magic, just like how a branded creature cannot be made into a Risen again or vice versa, and the elements that the dragons represent are separate and don't mix but merely co-exist and this is something non-speculative, some NPCs or wiki or whatever say they co-exist and tolerate each other only

2) Scarlet's lore story and vision constantly repeats that the sylvari and nightmare court are created and governed by this god like entity and they are made to serve a purpose or made to be what they are and they are supposed to accept that. this is vague but at the very least Scarlet has to do with the huge lore of the Sylvari/pale tree/ventari tablets and on wards. However, with the sylvari theory and what we read from Scarlet's story, basically it would be implied that they are supposed to be dragon minions in the future, assuming Forest Dragon hasn't awakened, and doesn't seem like it has, and the pale tree or the Trees are setting up its awakening.

3) Scarlet wants no part of that she wants to forge her own path, away from the control of a higher entity. Pale tree herself says: "Please: go no further. In seeking to comprehend the forces that shape us, you will unleash them. Society cannot withstand that." Some of us come to believe the "forces" that shape us are the elemental forces of the Dragons that over course of time again and again in these cycles of life and death, waking and slumbering, they terraform the entire world and kill off entire races and so on, "society" and "us" would point to this.

4) Scarlet wants to escape from the powers that governs the world. We have no idea what she's actually planning to do, but i think she's fighting AGAINST the dragons or wishing to control the world under her own new world order or beliefs. The non-draconic factions is EXACTLY what she wants. Some believe she's trying to make the anti-PACT, like a separate PACT under their own agenda of all the other factions/races left who are not influenced by the dragons or have been pushed out by the dragons, like.... the Krait. So like what i mentioned before she might have been trying to create a rift like the thaumanova thing that somehow benefits her agenda. maybe summon something to reform the world or fight against the dragons and the rest of us but i have no idea really. we dont know whatshe's doing exactly


5) In one of the most recent WP videos and from my personal research, we know that Brisban and the Maguuma westward extension actually has the most work done to it and a lot is there already including map portals to the next zone westwards and a possible dungeon and city that had been planned, some places that can be glitched into. This might suggest indeed we are going to get closer to the Forest Dragon first, and thus, Scarlet and all these alliances with nightmare court, inquest etc makes sense. Brisban itself already has a triadic alliance by default. https://www.ehmrybay..._140#entry59095

https://www.guildwar...at-scarlet-saw/

You can say it's all speculation but there's definitely a lot going on here. I'm a fan of Wooden Potatoes and he researches through gw1 and gw2 lore and connects dots and so forth and a lot of what he speculates might make a lot of sense. Even if it's not dragons, at the very least Pale Tree, Sylvari (newest race in Tyria), Maguuma development, Thaumanova/The Mists/Other dimensions, those are all reoccuring core lore themes that Scarlet is tied with.

On the other hand, if you read my previous reply, I didn't say they were holding hands. Nor should we believe they are. They are simply gaining some sort of benefit enough that they will tolerate working together "for now" until they for their own selfish reasons feel they want to overthrow scarlet or get the hell out. They are no doubt not holding hands. Especially as "evil alliances", that sort of thing doesn't happen, no happy go lucky, holding hands, lets work together as a team with evil characters/groups. I doubt Scarlet is holding anyone's hands, simply using people while giving enough incentive that they will contribute. But once again we dont know what exactly Scarlet has for each of these factions to make them listen

Though you have such a severe criticism of Anet, i don't think we should assume they are completely dumb. They have writers who wrote the GW2 novels, and those novels are great works, and the gw1 and gw2 lore is so extensive and complex with so many things intertwined, I would really have a hard time trying to see how you see them. I would find it much more convincing to believe they do have a grand scheme planned but are just fumbling at executing it. Like an amateur novelist who knows what they're writing about and all the intricate details but fail at delivering it so it makes sense or intrigues the reader and those involved and don't elaborate on anything.

[Rassy]

Sounds like aliens to me.

[CriticKitten]

Reina Takayama, on 06 November 2013 - 08:31 PM, said:

-snip-

The sylvari being dragon minions, whether true or not, does not in any way implicate Scarlet's plans as having anything to do with the dragons.

In fact, if anything, the evidence you presented suggests that she wants nothing to do with them at all.  The other interpretation of her wanting no part in "the forces that shape us" is that she doesn't want anything to do with their nature as former dragon minions.

I'm very much read up on the topic.  But none of that data, in any way, points to Scarlet's plotline having any direct link to the dragons.  The only connection thus far implied is the very much indirect "Sylvari might be dragon minions" fan theory, and that only very loosely ties Scarlet to the dragons.  Very, very loosely.

Furthermore, every single one of the factions she's recruited is non-draconic in nature, which (again) lends itself far more to the "she wants nothing to do with the dragons" side of things.

So no, not seeing the abundance of evidence you're seeing.  I'm seeing a huge lack of evidence.  Until something solid is presented in-game to suggest that she has any relation to the dragons whatsoever, I'm operating under the assumption that it's got squat to do with the dragons and that this entire Scarlet storyline is "filler" to keep us busy while they work on the major dragon-based releases.

As far as the alliances go, they are all supposedly being "forced" to work for Scarlet, which....really makes no sense.  There's absolutely no reason that these factions couldn't just rebel against her and kill her.  She might be really powerful for all we know, but even she would have trouble against the sort of odds presented here.  And as I pointed out, these factions gain nothing from working together.  Several of them have diametrically opposite world views.  This only further lends itself to people's perception of her as a Villain Sue who is simply so powerful that even all of these other evil factions can't possibly beat her, so they choose to join her instead.

As for the notion that the game's story is good, I don't think I should need to point this out because I had thought it was obvious, but....ANet is not good at storytelling.

Prophecies crams together no less than four separate storylines in a single bloated campaign that has to rush its big "reveal" at the end because it ran out of time to tell its stories.  The stories themselves were pretty standard fantasy stuff but were at least passable, the problem was that the villains were generally somewhat flat and almost one-dimensionally evil, and the story didn't have nearly enough time to cover everything it needed to.

Factions focuses around a guy we're supposed to sympathize with, despite that he kills the emperor purely out of his own paranoia and then returns as a completely evil ghost with no real redeeming qualities to him (and then Nightfall retcons him further and makes him a lackey of a fallen god whom he never once directly interacted with).

Nightfall has the same problem as GW2, in that it introduces a relatively useless NPC who sits in the spotlight and gets credit for your accomplishments, relegating you to "second in command" when you're making all the decisions and doing all the work.

EotN is perhaps the one most praised for its story, and even it only essentially functions as a short tie-in to prepare us for the world of GW2....whose personal story is strong in some areas and downright abysmal in others.  The Living Story of GW2 has been much the same, in some areas the story holds its ground well, and in others (namely anything involving Scarlet), it falls flat onto its face at the opening hurdle.

So suffice it to say that ANet's history with writing has not exactly been a star-studded history of writing.  What ANet has always excelled in is their ability to create a large and interesting world with a lot of different elements to it.  They're great at world-building.  But when it comes time to fill that world with stories....they are simply not very good at it.

Also, the ones in charge of the books are not the same people who are currently in charge of writing the storylines for their in-game releases.  Ghosts of Ascalon was written by Grubb, who primarily wrote for Nightfall and EotN, and no longer writes for ANet.  Edge of Destiny on the other hand, was written by a prominent D&D novelist (King) who to my knowledge also does not write for ANet's release staff.  The one possible exception is Soesbee, who wrote Sea of Sorrows and is still a Lore and Continuity writer on the team.  However, in my experience, people with that title generally were not in charge of writing the releases themselves, but rather making sure they didn't violate pre-existing canonical works.  So it's most likely that she doesn't do any direct content writing of her own.

[Reina Takayama]

CriticKitten, on 06 November 2013 - 09:54 PM, said:

~

Haha, okay, i understand your points here. I thought the gw1 lore was quite extensive and complex, in terms of when you take a step back and look at the whole universe, not the little portions.

On the other hand with scarlet and the alliances, the fact that she does not want to be under the dragon's rule, relates her to the dragons. The fact that she doesn't want to do with the dragons (which is probably false, because well, the dragons are there and will continue to be there and will pose a threat to whatever she's trying to accomplish assuming she is staying in tyria or for the time she is in tyria)

in the future if for example she wants to create her own empire and new world order, she will be in conflict with the dragons. The fact that she wants to get out of the forces of this world has to do with the dragons at least until if she opens up a portal or something and gets the hell out WHICH, will never happen like that because she already has crossed to different dimensions, (that's probably where she can get these sci-fi/steampunk aetherblades and steam creatures and all, and what her story suggests - the mists or wherever she travelled). I'd believe she's trying to do something here in Tyria so in the future, she would definitely have something to do with the dragons. Scarlet won't just co-exist happily with dragons and dragon minions on her doorstep... I think she's just setting up her own stuff until we see anything that will directly do/clash with dragons.

but anyway, i see your points in your last post there, and I understand that we have different views of it. I'm perhaps looking at it as glass being half full, whether or not we have any direct evidence doesnt matter to me, because the fact that scarlet is such a big massive complex enigma with her whole massive evil project or whatever means it will have to do with the core gw2 lore, dragons, bloodstones and all, just cuz they're so big they will overlap at some point

[CriticKitten]

Leaving the rest alone....

Reina Takayama, on 06 November 2013 - 10:04 PM, said:

On the other hand with scarlet and the alliances, the fact that she does not want to be under the dragon's rule, relates her to the dragons.

That doesn't make any sense at all.

Literally, it reads "She wishes to have nothing to do with X, therefore that directly relates her to X".  Which is nonsense.  Let me apply it to a real world scenario and maybe you'll see what I mean:

I would prefer to avoid being mauled by a bear at any point in my life.  Therefore, I am good friends with a bear in real life, and I do his grocery shopping.

See why I might take issue with that sort of rationale?

Scarlet, to date, has no connections to any dragons, anywhere.  All evidence at present suggests that she's actively avoiding drawing from draconic entities or powers to fuel her army, too.  You're using this to conclude that she's somehow related to the dragons....and I'm sorry, but that just doesn't make sense to me at all.

The possibility that, one day, she might get into a brawl with a dragon because they're on her turf does not, in any way, tie her to the dragons in the here-and-now.

[Reina Takayama]

CriticKitten, on 06 November 2013 - 10:22 PM, said:

Leaving the rest alone....
That doesn't make any sense at all.

Literally, it reads "She wishes to have nothing to do with X, therefore that directly relates her to X".  Which is nonsense.  Let me apply it to a real world scenario and maybe you'll see what I mean:

I would prefer to avoid being mauled by a bear at any point in my life.  Therefore, I am good friends with a bear in real life, and I do his grocery shopping.

See why I might take issue with that sort of rationale?

Scarlet, to date, has no connections to any dragons, anywhere.  All evidence at present suggests that she's actively avoiding drawing from draconic entities or powers to fuel her army, too.  You're using this to conclude that she's somehow related to the dragons....and I'm sorry, but that just doesn't make sense to me at all.

The possibility that, one day, she might get into a brawl with a dragon because they're on her turf does not, in any way, tie her to the dragons in the here-and-now.

lol the bear analogy doesn't work though. the dragons are not one small thing in a limited location. these are elemental forces that creep across the world. it's like saying I wish to avoid the sun. you can't. even the moon reflects the sun. some dragons haven't even reveals much of themselves yet like forest dragon and sea dragon. and primordus is still underground. as they rise and take over more land like Risen is in a lot of places, they will overlap no doubt. in fact scarlet already has to do with the dragons bc the krait are a race that was driven out of the sea losing everything they once had. the dragons aren't simple monsters they represent the elemental forces and the natural cycles of the world. their awakening and slumber is like the ice age, it represents a time to wipe the world clear of its inhabitants or structures and reset and rebuild. if we don't fight or resist the dragons they will completely take over. scarlet cannot avoid the dragons. I believe she is just setting up for her own agendas for the future which will likely involve her own idea of what these dragons are about and what she will do in response to their existence. if you think about it every effort she is making to pave her own path may be driven by the fact that she doesn't want to be under dragon rule or to have Tyria reformed and reset by these forces. she is resisting in her own way and what she believes will be extremely powerful enough that she has the best way and she's gonna make all these ppl follow her. well speculation in the latter half of this post but regardless you can't just avoid the dragons, scarlet knows this. she's seeking her own way on her own agenda. to be in Tyria means you are under the threat of dragons. that's why human and charr is supposed to establish a peace treaty the PACT aside. and how does that make sense? human and charr alliance? is that suppose to make more sense than these evil alliances? to the separatists and renegades I'm sure it doesn't make any sense

[Reina Takayama]

btw sorry I'm not being completely honest here lol I'm actually into the whole devils advocate role right now, believe me, I'm not actually as convicted of what I'm saying than I sound lol there's no doubt anet could just be retarded and screw things up as usual, but I guess what I'm saying is the potential of what it could be according to what we know so I'm not going to rule out any possibility for redemption or discard all hope xD I'll hang on to some hope and at least I can feel hey it coulda turned out that way and I'll wait for the next thing and hope they do it right.

they did start the collaborative development thing and hopefully they'll hear what ppl are saying. they've responded to the dragon comments for sure tho they won't forget about it and have plans blah blah blah lol we'll see

[CriticKitten]

Reina Takayama, on 06 November 2013 - 10:37 PM, said:

-snip-

Except for the fact that they are totally avoidable.  They dwell primarily in regions of the map where our access is already limited, and there are several unspoiled portions of Tyria.

Also, again, living in proximity to something does not mean that it ties into your story directly.  Going back to bears, when talking about my life story, I'm fairly certain that no one will care about my proximity to a large bear habitat unless the bears directly influenced my upbringing.  Scarlet living in a world where the dragons are large "forces of nature" does not mean that her story has anything to do with the dragons.  Southsun also exists in Tyria, as does the SAB device, and I'm pretty sure you couldn't make even the most vague of ties between those storylines and the dragons, much less draw a direct cause-effect line between them.  But that's what you're doing right now with Scarlet, and on the basis of no hard evidence at that.

There is simply nothing tying them together as of yet.  Something might come along later, but right now, there is nothing to suggest that Scarlet's overarching plans in any way involve the dragons, or that the dragons had anything to do with her upbringing (in fact the short story doesn't even mention the dragons in discussing her origins), or that the dragons even factor into her plans or livelihood in any way.  The closest that dragons came to relating to Scarlet thus far....is that Scarlet's minions once attacked the Dragon Bash festival.  That's about it.

And again, I'm not saying that there never will be a link.  Only that it would hardly surprise me if Scarlet's story was merely a "filler" to keep us busy while they worked on the dragon-based releases, because to date, that's how they've been playing it.  It's as if the dragons have just vanished off the radar completely.  We've seen only one story release since the game's launch that even discussed the dragons, and to call that release a "story" release is to strain credulity.

[Reina Takayama]

CriticKitten, on 07 November 2013 - 12:08 AM, said:

~

Southsun has karka because of the Sea Dragon xD and yeah SAB is just a random fun thing to enjoy. I'm not saying scarlet right now is so concretely about dragons, but through the convincing speculative theories, from her lore story and onwards, she embodies a much larger lore that is LIKELY blending in/overlapping with dragons. Her lore web story for example and how much reach she has across the maps gathering different forces, the dragons reach will also creep throughout the land as well. I dont know, you can say there's no concrete evidence, but it's just that scarlet has a large extensive network across tyria, and I see how she has much potential tied in to Dragons or at least the core gw2 lore of the Mists, the rifts and dimensions like with Thaumanova. They've made her much bigger than something like SAB, and drops clues and hints that it's bigger than you might think. The web lore story behind scarlet was one of the first that had such deep profound lore implications and meaning. Other stories were just fluff comparatively. Anyway, it's just yeah there's so much happening behind the scenes for sure that we don't know about. Whether it is directly to do with Dragons in the future or not, we will find out, but the lore and scheme behind scarlet and al this, isn't something simple and something to be brushed off. There is extensive implications and influence of this. She has spanned across many living story updates. Sure its not well executed but I really disagree that you should take it so lightly. I don't think the word filler content should be applied either, because she can be very effective "filler" content. Say, it leads us towards the real dragon lore, and when it comes scarlet has nothing to do with it, but her actions and her living story updates led us towards the discovery of the forest dragon, that would be effective filler content. Anet said they intend to make it like a television series, with episodic instalments, that lead towards things, one step at a time. Its poorly executed that we don't know whats going on or its not well elaborated but it still means we only see the tip of the iceberg of what they planned