29 replies to this topic

[Slein Jinn]

Silvernis, on 09 May 2014 - 08:55 AM, said:

On a related note, is it possible to use, say, a warrior rune to reduce the attunement swap CD?

Unfortunately no.  Mechanics inconsistency for the win.

[Silvernis]

I suspected things couldn't be that convenient, lol. At any rate, I still like the look of that rune.

[UltraEM]

So, apparently, Gates of Maguuma is gonna add Toughness/Healing Power/Vitality armor, and I want to know everyone's opinions/predictions on the stat combination (in WvW especially).

Well, first thing's first... no damage. I don't see anyone seriously running a full set of this armor in WvW. I could be wrong. But it could be useful in Dungeons or if you just like to be an immortal punching bag.

[Silvernis]

Dunno. I'm no expert, but offhand, I'd say it sounds tailor-made for people who really want to try the old-fashioned cleric/healer thing. Sturdy, low damage, all support. Probably not very useful in large-scale fights, but I guess it could be good in small groups.

[Sanji]

I may run that full set in wvw Ultraness on a guardian sounds perfect for wading into zergs and just messing up formations and stuff. Tho super survival classes will be just about unkillable with that on....so ugg to that...

[UltraEM]

Update: The new gear is called "Nomad's"

Yeah, it's most definitely for tanking damage and supporting your friends, but.... no damage!! I think whoever wants to use that should put in some Berserker gear so that they have some damage output as well. In a small group, a full set could be used to tank all the damage while your buddies do all the DPS.

Well, Guardians are supposed to be tanks and support in a large group, so I suppose it can be very useful, but personally, I also like putting my own pressure from damage as well, so I won't be using it. I need my Powerrrr.
(I'm not too excited about having to deal with roamers that are wearing that gear either)

[Fyre Red]

Just saw this guide and it's fantastic work. I'd just like to add in a little for those that are interested in going to gvg and/or do blob busting (I'm looking at you crosius).

The new "meta" is holbrak runes.
All frontliners should have them. Constant might uptime makes your tankers hit like one. The reduced condition duration is also pretty essential. Only those having problems surviving should take melandru instead.

Pure of voice and trooper runes are no longer the "meta".
Pure of voice has been nerfed to remove one condition instead of 2 and as mentioned above, holbrak is the new meta. The problem also lies in the fact that people tend to hold their skills and use them defensively. Guards usually use their shouts at the start of an engage and not to reserve them to remove conditions. Warriors should use their shouts(healing) on cool down for general sustain.

Group composition is essential.
The ideal party consists of two guards, two Warriors and one necro. Guards should coordinate who will take stability 1 and 2 and who should run strength in numbers. Back liners and pick teams run in their own groups.

If anyone wants specific builds or play styles, feel free to drop me a message.

[Slein Jinn]

Ignoring for the moment that you're bringing this irrelevance into a "basics" thread...

Trying to take the "meta" used in upper tiers and apply it directly to T8 is a mistake.  The environment and the resources here are different.  You have to understand what motivates that "meta", why it's used, and how it works, and then see how you can incorporate those ideas into the context of a server like Ehmry Bay.  

The move away from active condition removal (Pure of Voice, Trooper Runes, etc.) is based on having a bunch of things all working together in perfect harmony, and no one on this server is anywhere close to that, nor is anyone in this tier likely to be anywhere close to that any time soon.  The goal of this is to get the Guardians into 0/0/30/20/20 builds, which allows them to incorporate more DPS into their gear without exploding.  The normal Guardian builds--Altruistic Healing (0/5/30/30/5) and Virtues (0/0/10/30/30)--give you either maximal sustained survivability or maximal boon sharing, but not both; the Purging Flames build attempts to get the best of both worlds by sacrificing on-demand condition removal and banking on passive condition duration reduction to handle most of the incoming conditions.  

In order to drop Shout condition removal, you have to have an organised Purging Flames rotation, everyone must be running Lemongrass Poultry Soup (those cheap Mango Pies everyone on EBay eats? they're a death trap in such a build), and everyone needs to be running condition duration reduction runes, plus you need to be getting condition removal from other classes.  The idea is to stack condition duration reduction, which can reach -96%, causing most conditions to just melt away relatively harmlessly without needing to be actively cleared.  The whole thing is balanced on a knife's edge; if you can keep it going, it does offer an advantage, but it can also collapse spectacularly very easily.  

The alternative of running one Virtues Guardian and one AH Guardian in each party with on-demand condition removal is much easier to manage, and demands much less from the players running it, both in terms of coordination and individual skill and in terms of resources.  And the results are very similar.  Because you're not depending on Purging Flames, you can run Signet of Judgement, which is extremely strong--the damage reduction is applied at the back end of the damage calculation, and it stacks additively with Protection and Frost Aura.  The Virtues Guardian still has Protection and Stability on Virtue of Courage for the on-engage boons, and you've got plenty more boon sharing for sustained during the fight.  

I'm not wholly convinced the Purging Flames meta will last very long at the top end, either.  Despite its strengths, there seem to be some real exploitable vulnerabilities.  

Debating what a skillgroup should be running is utterly irrelevant, though.  If you try to put the average PuG into that meta, the average PuG zerg is going to be completely useless, because the concepts that motivate the builds you're advocating just don't work in a PuG environment.  The point of this thread is to help EBay's PuG players get into decent builds.  The Purging Flames meta is anything but a decent PuG build.

[Fyre Red]

I did qualify it by saying it's meant for guilds interested in gvging and zergbusting, specifically highlighting crosius as I feel his guild has huge potential.
Apologies if you feel like it hijacks your thread (although I'd be more concerned about the talk of zealot armour). I specifically refrained from actually putting out builds or play style so as to not detract from your guide (which I already said is fantastic) for the puggies.

[Slein Jinn]

I've updated the Backliners section.  Updates to the other sections will be coming "Soon"™.  The posted builds now reflect the trait system rework, the nerf to Bloodlust stacking, the second upgrade slot on two-handed weapons, etc., as well as just some general polish and tweaking.