20 replies to this topic

[RizeJodo]

Hello everyone!

I will be hosting a TS meeting tomorrow at 5/12/15 at 11am CDT. The topics to be discussed include the following;

1. Possible rewording/reworking of the hack and ban policy to facilitate clarity.
2. Guidelines for holding TS meetings.
3. The separation of Church and State (aka PvE and WvW) when discussing TS issues and implementing policies.
4. Bridging the gap between the forums and the TS.

The topics are further broken down in the channel I created for the meeting in TS.

The meeting is open to all that would like to attend.

I will be facilitating the flow of the meeting and have capped the allotted time to 1 hour (15 minutes per topic).

Meeting notes will be taken and posted for reference of those that cannot attend.

[UltraEM]

Won't be able to go (as usual :/). Thanks in advance to whoever takes down the minutes/notes.

[Biff Rangoon]

Yeah, I can't be there either.

One thing to keep in mind is that whatever results should seem reasonable to people not on the call as well, even if everybody doesn't agree with it. Meaning, the goal should be reasonable policy that draws on the facts, not just agreement on the call, or it will fail. To that end, I recommend the notes include the reasoning behind whatever is adopted.

Good luck!

[Sanji]

Cant be on either...another one thats gonna read the paper facts.

[Grav]

UltraEM, on 11 May 2015 - 10:20 AM, said:

Won't be able to go (as usual :/).

Biff Rangoon, on 11 May 2015 - 10:57 AM, said:

Yeah, I can't be there either.

Sanji, on 11 May 2015 - 11:11 AM, said:

Cant be on either...

Make that four.  A trend I see. >_>

In my absence, my position on the above topics:

1. Here's my rewording: You hack = ban from all aspects of the community (that being membership to participating guilds in-game, and both forums and TS out of game).  You hack + refuse to ever stop hacking = as above, but permanently.  And yes this can be backdated because this is a damn game, and not backdating it keeps us all from playing the damn game.  Proof: this topic still exists after ten months.

2. There shouldn't be any, at least not in the serverwide sense, because it's not possible to hold them in the serverwide sense, because the entire server cannot be present, because as other posts in this thread ably demonstrate, the world is round.  You can hold multiple meetings in other timezones, but that dilutes the advantage of the so-called immediacy that a TS meeting has over forums.  Someone still has to record notes for others who can't make it to any meetings and post them here; for all that effort, why not just have the discussion here like we have any other discussion here?

3. It shouldn't be so much a question of separation as a question of relevance and efficiency.  If there's a discussion on PvE or sPvP on the forums, I can ignore it and move on as I probably don't care.  At a meeting, I have to sit and wait through that stuff, which takes me back to 2. as far as why forums are a better community discussion medium than TS.

4. Using TS for serverwide meetings is as dumb as trying to raid via forums.  The "gap" need not be anything beyond the result of using each tool for its natural purpose, i.e. TS for in-game discussion and forums for out-of-game discussion.

[Sanji]

I still think that in pt 3. can listen in on the ts meeting and still do wvw, dungeons, etc. your sitting in a chair afterall to game or did I miss what you were trying to say Grav?

[Grav]

Sanji, on 11 May 2015 - 02:54 PM, said:

I still think that in pt 3. can listen in on the ts meeting and still do wvw, dungeons, etc. your sitting in a chair afterall to game or did I miss what you were trying to say Grav?

I can't be in a TS meeting if I'm also in WvW, because I use TS for WvW.  I don't generally PvE, so for me to attend a meeting, I would have to already be not playing the game.  And if I'm not playing the game, then forums are far more convenient for me than TS, especially when it comes to arranged meetings at a specified time.

[Sanji]

Fair enough.

[Sorrows]

@ work during said time. Hope you all get stuff hammered out.

Can you expand on:

"3. The separation of Church and State (aka PvE and WvW) when discussing TS issues and implementing policies." ?

[RizeJodo]

Of course Sorrows. These are the overarching topics that are further broken down into bullet points in the TS description.

Essentially it is to discuss when an issue arises in the WvW community should PvE representatives have input in the decision making or vice versa (if a PvE issue is found should the WvW community have input or should we leave it to the PvE community). As an example if a WvW commander is being grossly inappropriate in TS in the WvW channels while commanding but is generally ok otherwise should it be left to the WvW community to discuss? Or should it be a full community issue?

If someone were to say hack in WvW and create a cloud over the heads of the rest of those that WvW should decisions be made by people that play with the person and suffer the consequences of said actions or should again the entire population be involved in the decision making. And if someone is caught botting in PvE should the WvW community be involved in any decision making or repercussions the community decides to enforce?

[Aduah]

I'll be asleep, Sorry Rize.

[Plainsman]

working, sorry

[cassy]

I will be working at that time.  You don't even want to know what is happening where I work.

So here is my position:

1. As for hacking bans etc the last time it was brought up I couldn't even get a technical question about the TS answered because Thuley had to lock the thread.

So as a result I will not enforce any bans on TS because no one had any interest in explaining how, or when that should be done.  So it must not be important, and only seems to create divisions.  Now I have no time for that.  


As far as I am concerned the horse is dead, and it has been beaten at length already.
We could be spending that time doing something useful or fun, like killing Darkhaven, or painting the GOM bl blue . . .  Getting the day crew back together seems like a more pressing concern than revisiting an issue that we have already discussed it at length, discussed on TS at least once already, and have already revisited the topic and added an addendum.

2. TS meetings as a server don't seem to work particularly well, but if you are going to have them take notes and post them on the forums or something.  That way people who couldn't be there can weigh in, and when 10 months from now someone asks about it there is something we can go back and check.  I won't remember anything anyone says for that long.

3. As for PVE, or even Spvp, it mostly happens in the Guild channels so I think we should let the guilds handle any interpersonal conflicts.  One guild might not mind cursing etc. and another one might.
If you don't like how someone is acting in your channel you can just kick them out of that channel, it isn't a server-wide issue.

4. If you notice that people aren't using the TS or the forums there are most likely reasons, and the only ones I have heard are that people are too busy, don't feel like talking, or are having interpersonal conflicts with others.

[Maksyn]

I don't think ideas need to be called stupid or the like.

I won't be in TS because my voice is too sexy for you all to bear.

[cassy]

Did this ever happen?

[Silvernis]

cassy, on 12 May 2015 - 07:49 PM, said:

Did this ever happen?

My guess? Mak showed up with his sexy voice, and everyone's ears got pregnant.

[Sanji]

Silvernis, on 13 May 2015 - 07:43 AM, said:

My guess? Mak showed up with his sexy voice, and everyone's ears got pregnant.

Edited: Scrub Voice, and everyone's ears got a wonky bell sound:)

But seriously isnt it more middle of day just about all NA couldnt attend without being a home worker or having work TS so failed.
or
The person taking the notes...is editing them into a none rough draft copy.

[Aduah]

From my understanding it happened and there was, of course, a small attendance.

[RizeJodo]

The meeting technically occurred however it started later than intended. The topics listed were not discussed in manner they were going to be.

The meeting did show that holding Teamspeak meetings in general makes it difficult for some to attend. If the meeting were held during NA prime-time I would not have been able to attend.

So a few small changes were made to the hack and ban policy (regarding the Teamspeak) allowing for discussions held on the forums to be considered. As you could hold a meeting and change policies at times that would effectively eliminate some of those that directly oppose your viewpoint if you did so solely in Teamspeak. The last few meetings we had didn't even go as far as I did for this meeting which included me posting a guide of topics for those that would like to be prepared as well as opening a venue for those that cannot make it to respond in threads such as this. I posted the meeting in the commander forums, this events forum, and created a channel for it in the teamspeak that also included the breakdown of discussion points in order to get the word out days in advance. I also indicated an exact start time of 11:00 am CDT (GMT -5) and did not create a range of times so that people could know whether or not they could attend.

I do hope for future Teamspeak meetings a similar format is followed.

Thank you for those that shared your thoughts in this thread. I relayed your responses to the few that did attend and hope I represented you adequately. I wasn't going to let any major changes occur without greater representation.

[Maksyn]

Sanji, on 13 May 2015 - 09:47 AM, said:

Edited: Scrub Voice, and everyone's ears got a wonky bell sound:)

But seriously isnt it more middle of day just about all NA couldnt attend without being a home worker or having work TS so failed.
or
The person taking the notes...is editing them into a none rough draft copy.

Sanji, stay out of Winewraith lanes. =P