38 replies to this topic

[Sorrows]

Slein Jinn, on 15 June 2015 - 09:03 PM, said:

If you don't like that sort of content, I'd probably try to do it before they change it.  Post-change, you'll be on your own to figure out and handle the content, but right now you can be carried.

I think it will scale actually. However, story mode can only be opened if you are at the end of your personal story and have not done story mode Arah. I'll find the notes.

Here: https://forum-en.gui...toration-update

I do agree starting now would be faster because there is still no definite date on this revamp.

[Grav]

Slein Jinn, on 15 June 2015 - 09:00 PM, said:

And when do you usually log on?

Around 7-9pm my time (+12).

[Slein Jinn]

So around 09:00-11:00 for me.  That's very doable most days of the week.  Let me know when you fancy it.

[Grav]

Update: Zhaitan is dead.  Now looking for PvP helpers.

[Rimmy1a]

Grav, on 15 June 2015 - 03:53 AM, said:

As some of you may know, I've been keen on a Bifrost for a while now, but have been equally resigned to never getting one because tokens means Arah and I hate dungeons.

As some of you may also know, I've also never done PvP, because I'm the sort of person that hates giving my enemy what they want, in this case fights.

Well tonight I just learned that apparently you can get dungeon tokens from doing PvP (I swear to god I never knew this!), and suddenly I find my desire for Bifrost is overwhelming my dislike for PvP.

But first things first.  It seems before I can start repeatedly throwing myself under the PvP bus for the greater good, I first need to endure the Arah storyline and kill Zhaitan, and so I'm LFGing for a team to endure that with me, just this once.

If/when that's done, I'll then be putting myself up for temporary adoption by some PvP peeps who can hopefully carry me through enough of whatever I need to do to get the tokens I need please.

I'm not in any particular rush - after all, I've been playing GW2 for years already without knowing any of this was even possible* - but I can make myself available weeknights Kiwi time (late NA/early OCX), or weekends by negotiation.

Thanks in advance.

*Go on, laugh you bastards.

Yes, I didn't trim the quote and I suck.

In addition to doing the PvP, you can always check LFG to see if there's a mostly-full party about to do a(ny but four) path in Arah. If you just follow along as do your damage, you'll get through and get your sixty tokens. Read up on Lupicus first though.

This assumes you didn't already get all the tokens you need.

[Grav]

Rimmy1a, on 20 June 2015 - 11:05 PM, said:

In addition to doing the PvP, you can always check LFG to see if there's a mostly-full party about to do a(ny but four) path in Arah. If you just follow along as do your damage, you'll get through and get your sixty tokens. Read up on Lupicus first though.

This assumes you didn't already get all the tokens you need.

Luckily I already have 260 from a few explorable runs from forever ago, so the 240 from the PvP track will be spot on for my needs.

And I got 60/240 tonight already, thanks to Cro and CoT for letting me into their team for a few rounds tonight.

I might try and get this done during this week while we still have an easy WvW match.  LFG HotM all this week.

[Rimmy1a]

Grav, on 21 June 2015 - 03:59 AM, said:

Luckily I already have 260 from a few explorable runs from forever ago, so the 240 from the PvP track will be spot on for my needs.

And I got 60/240 tonight already, thanks to Cro and CoT for letting me into their team for a few rounds tonight.

I might try and get this done during this week while we still have an easy WvW match.  LFG HotM all this week.

Bifrost #1 legendary, anybody who says otherwise is consumed with envy.

[Slein Jinn]

Flameseeker Prophecies is my favourite--just a shame that shield isn't meta for anything.  And it can't be that I'm envious; I have both.  Bifrost is my #2, though.

[cassy]

Hmm I wonder if a PvP university would be helpful for anyone.

Also Bifrost is the best weapon in the game.  I have it already so luckily I can avoid Arah and PvP, but I wouldn't mind helping someone else get theirs either.

[Aduah]

cassy, on 21 June 2015 - 05:01 PM, said:

Hmm I wonder if a PvP university would be helpful for anyone.

http://qqmore.net/

I've not actually ever read through the site, always meant to. Last time I was on there it was brand new though and didn't have a lot of 'stuff'. But Its aim, i believe, was to help people get better at PvP.

[Slein Jinn]

cassy, on 21 June 2015 - 05:01 PM, said:

Hmm I wonder if a PvP university would be helpful for anyone.

It wouldn't really be practical.  (More on why in a moment...)  The best thing would just be to find a mentor.

Aduah, on 22 June 2015 - 01:37 AM, said:

http://qqmore.net/

There's some good stuff on QQMore, but most of it is very entry-level, and a lot of it isn't really sPvP-specific (e.g. safe stomping techniques).  The presentation is pretty good, but there's a lack of depth to the content in general, which isn't really intended as a criticism of Kuhrer; it's just not really possible to go into great depth from the armchair.  Success in sPvP mostly depends on experience, mechanical skill, and having the correct mindset; "book knowledge" can't really take you all that far.  

If you want to become good at sPvP, you need to put time into it.  Play a lot.  Watch top teams play in competitive tournaments.  Practise 1v1's, but always use meta conquest builds, not tailor-made duelling builds or counter-builds or shitty "my own creation" builds, and to whatever extent possible, also practise against meta conquest builds.  Play a lot.  Try to find better players who will play with you on voice comms if possible, and benefit from their experience.  Try to fight against better players, get rekt, and when you do get rekt, don't make excuses about the other team's builds or the PuG's on your team or anything else you can't control--just focus on what you could have done better.  Play a lot.  

Being good at sPvP is basically a combination of just general being good at GW2 mechanics, knowing all of the class matchups inside-and-out, and understanding how to rotate.  All of that stuff requires practise and experience, and moreover, that you reflect on that practise and experience with an appropriately critical mindset.  You can write guides that scratch the very surface-level basics, like my recent post on rotations, but there is an incredible amount of nuance beyond what such a guide can accomplish, and it's familiarity with that nuance that really separates players.

This is one of the most informative things I've ever seen for sPvP, but you really need a fair amount of experience to even be able to appreciate how valuable Helseth's analysis is.  Whatever people may think of his on-camera persona, Helseth is one of the best tactical minds in GW2, and he has an excellent critical mentality.  Beyond all the specific insight analyses like this can offer, the most important thing you can take away is probably just to try to apply that same analytical mentality to your own matches.

[Grav]

OK so things I've learned from sPvP so far:

* Players of all skill levels play all types of arenas.  This makes hotjoin pretty much useless, might as well play unranked for the extra rewards.
* The first night running with CoT we won maybe 80% of our matches.  Pugging it alone since then I've been about 30%.  Without a co-ordinated group, I can only hope to land an even less co-ordinated group than my own, i.e. it becomes a lottery.
* For killing my latency last night, and then forcing me to wait on hold for over an hour only for someone to tell me they had no idea when their fault would be fixed, my ISP can go die in a chemical fire.

[Slein Jinn]

Hotjoin is only useful for learning the maps.  Really that's best accomplished in empty maps than in active matches, though--instead of clicking "practise", look for an open server and just run around for a while.  Basically every map has a lot of little 'mini jumping puzzles' that are incredibly useful for kiting, which is incredibly important for a mesmer.  

I only ever queue ranked--you're slightly less likely to find PvE carebears running shitty non-meta builds than you are in unranked, it only has the four competitive maps (Forest/Legacy/Kyhlo/Temple), and Standard Character Models are enabled.  If you don't really care about PvP, though, unranked might be better, because you should be slightly (emphasis on "slightly") less likely to find people who rage in team chat, and the mayhem of the non-competitive maps can kinda level the playing field I suppose.

[Rimmy1a]

Slein Jinn, on 21 June 2015 - 03:14 PM, said:

Flameseeker Prophecies is my favourite--just a shame that shield isn't meta for anything.  And it can't be that I'm envious; I have both.  Bifrost is my #2, though.

^ ^ self-envy, and a closeted Bifrost fondler.

[cassy]

The problem with PvP, is that I sort of despise it a bit.  The only thing worse than PvP would be Fractals.  When I join randomly it seems a 50/50 shot at winning, and when I have run with OG we usually win.
I feel like I should try to get better at it, in the same way that I feel I should get my teeth drilled by a dentist.  That was why I was hoping there were tutorial videos or something.

Rimmy1a, on 23 June 2015 - 09:59 PM, said:

^ ^ self-envy, and a closeted Bifrost fondler.

Fondling Bifrost makes the rainbows come out!

[Silvernis]

cassy, on 24 June 2015 - 03:03 PM, said:

Fondling Bifrost makes the rainbows come out!

I...wow. I might just have to put that in my sig.

More seriously, though:

cassy, on 24 June 2015 - 03:03 PM, said:

I feel like I should try to get better at it, in the same way that I feel I should get my teeth drilled by a dentist.

This is basically how I feel about sPvP. I want to get more involved with it, but at the same time, getting more involved with it sounds like an exercise in frustration.

[Slein Jinn]

cassy, on 24 June 2015 - 03:03 PM, said:

When I join randomly it seems a 50/50 shot at winning, and when I have run with OG we usually win.

Well, that's kinda the goal of effective matchmaking.  The system tries to match you with and against other players near your level, so if the system were completely successful, everyone would be near 50% win rate when solo queueing.  Of course, it's never going to work out quite like that in practise--players at the extreme ends of the skill spectrum win more or less than those in the middle--but that's generally a reasonable system.  

It would help if they had publicly visible MMR or more effective leaderboards--which they are working on--so that players could have a more measurable assessment of their progress.  Progress in sPvP right now is pretty intangible.  You make progress by becoming a better player, and the result of that is that you get matched with/against better players.  This generally creates "better" matches--more controlled, less chaotic, with outcomes more driven by good play than by mistakes.  But it's not something that players--especially casual players--can really latch onto like you can with moving up the leagues in Smite or something.

[Grav]

Finally completed the Arah track tonight, the dream is still alive.  The precursor cost continues to climb out of my reach however, but at least now I'm no worse off than everyone else who similarly can't afford theirs.  The rest of the bits and pieces are now just a matter of buy orders being filled.

Thanks to everyone in this thread for their insights on PvP.  I don't think I see myself getting into it seriously - certainly not without an organised group, anyway - but it was far more fun than doing dungeons at least. o7

[Sorrows]

So you have enough tokens now? Yay, congrats.