36 replies to this topic

[XxKakarot]

I did not come up with this build but I do Like it and want to share it.
Credit to Hanzo.9624

http://gw2buildcraft...r.3w.40.3x.4f|e

The focus of this build is being able to have a constant offense even while playing defensively. Sigil of Geomancy gives 3 stacks of bleeding on weapon swap, Weakening Shroud gives 2 stacks of bleeding and weakness on DS activation, and Mark of Evasion gives 2 stacks of bleeding and regen on dodge. This allows you to keep up the pressure with bleed damage when the enemy is mounting an offensive and you can’t stand at range and cast. It also allows a condition version of burst via ability chains:
Staff 2 > Dodge toward enemy > Weapon Swap > DS 2 > DS 3 > Scepter 2 > Dagger 5 if all land thats up to 16 stacks of bleeds
with my stats 1830 cond dmg thats 134 bleed dmg per tick per stack
16 bleed stacks = 2144 per second x3 seconds = 6432
while that is not OP burst you still have to factor fear/poison or any other boons you turn into conditions.

(Tip: Can weapon swap when knocked down, dodging, stunned, etc to keep bleed stacks up at all times)
Epidemic allows for large AoE damage and control (DS2 + Epidemic for long AoE chill, etc). I always try to use Flesh Wurm because he’s damage, lifeforce, poison, stun break and mobility all on a 40 sec cooldown. Corrupt Boon never leaves my bar.
Found better success with Hemophilia over Master of Corruption as most of the damage comes from bleeds from sources other than your autoattack (ie why I didn’t take Lingering Curse). Also Soul Marks over Master of Terror as the goal of the build is to have DS available for Weakening Shroud as often as possible

[Inextirpable Adamas]

This gives me a lot of ideas to add to my fear build. Thank you!

[matthen]

This is very similar to the build I was working towards on my necro (0/20/10/10/30). The traits are almost identical except that I am planning to take stability on DS. I plan to do a lot of WvW once I hit 80 (which is not too far off).

Here are my questions:

From a survivability perspective, I expect that the toughness on the Rabid gear has advantages over the vitality from the Carrion... at least given all the health and LF a necro can pump out. However, it seems like the extra power from carrion equipment should provide a significant damage boost against condition-resistant targets. Obviously, both would result in a boat-load of condition damage. So...

1. Do you think that your build work (or a shroud stomping variant) would well with carrion gear (or a carrion/rabid mix)?

2. Do you get a lot of damage from "Barbed Precision" (bleed chance on crit), so that it's important to have a high precision build to keep damage up?

Thanks for posting.

[SeñorHueso]

Maybe I'm blind but I don't see many people run / use plague as a elite skill.  I find it useful to help dot people up in large zergs Plus you move fast and take very little damage since no one seems to notice you.

[FMFlux]

Plague elite with Curses Major Trait III (Chilling Darkness) is a whole new level of hilarity for wrecking zergs, especially when you can drop in unexpected places. AOE Blind/Chill/Poison for days, plus stability? Yes please.

Regarding Carrion versus Rabid, I tend to prefer having a mix, but the theoretical Effective Health boost from stacking Rabid over Carrion is...negligible at best (on the order of trading a few dozen points of theoretical power for equal theoretical health), to the point that I've found the Power boost from Carrion is better overall than the mitigation from Rabid. I think the value of one over the other is dependent on what you're facing, Crit-focused (in which case Rabid's better for mitigation) or Condition-focused (in which case Carrion's better for soaking). In my experience, I'd rather have more health than toughness.

Anyway, that's a cool build, thanks for linking!

[XxKakarot]

Well this build is mainly for pvp/duals
In wvw I always run plauge form for the blinds

I made another post with my regular wvw build.

[Teldec]

I always run plague form for those clutch stomps.

This build is similar to mine except I don't bother with the 10 in blood and marks on dodges as they are buggy and don't always appear.

[Reisa]

matthen, on 30 May 2013 - 11:00 PM, said:

From a survivability perspective, I expect that the toughness on the Rabid gear has advantages over the vitality from the Carrion... at least given all the health and LF a necro can pump out. However, it seems like the extra power from carrion equipment should provide a significant damage boost against condition-resistant targets. Obviously, both would result in a boat-load of condition damage. So...

I believe the rabid goes over the carrion for a couple reason.

While power is useful, and the way the game scales damage makes things kinda wonky, this is pretty much a full condition build.  The problem with power is that you have to do direct damage to someone to make it work.  For this build, you can dump a lot of conditions on someone then focus on your defensive gameplay.  I do wonder on its effectiveness, though.  Might get more bang for your buck going the Power stacking weapon sigil instead of corruption--and, of course, playing with a buddy that can maybe might stack you.

Second, necromancers already have a crapton of HP, the most in the game tied with warriors--and if you play with or against warriors, you know they generally run Knight's if they run defensive gear at all.  On top of Death Shroud, you end up with a class that has the largest health pool in the game and has a pretty decent cleanse that's a bonus to their already fantastic heal.

Lastly, I think the most important reason they're stacking so much toughness is the last effect of the undeath rune gives +5% toughness to condition damage and the tuning crystal gives +6% of toughness to condi damage.  It's actually pretty freaking good to have your main defense stat adding ~10% of itself to your offensive power, especially when you already have a large health pool so you don't need vitality.

[matthen]

Thanks guys for the comments regarding carrion versus rabid.

Teldec, on 01 June 2013 - 05:11 PM, said:

I always run plague form for those clutch stomps.

This build is similar to mine except I don't bother with the 10 in blood and marks on dodges as they are buggy and don't always appear.

In my experience, the marks on dodge are predictable. I think the reason they are not appearing for you is the internal CD on the trait. I think it's something like 10 seconds. I tested it at one point, and now I don't remember what it is.

[matthen]

Reisa, on 01 June 2013 - 06:23 PM, said:

While power is useful, and the way the game scales damage makes things kinda wonky, this is pretty much a full condition build.  The problem with power is that you have to do direct damage to someone to make it work.  

Thinking about what your wrote here, it seems like power becomes more important with the amount of time you spend in Death Shroud (as those attacks scale well with power). I was reviewing the skills and Staff + Scepter/Dagger are pretty meh for power damage.

[XxKakarot]

to clear some things up regarding mark of evasion

http://wiki.guildwar...Mark_of_Evasion

• This trait can be triggered once every 10 seconds.
  
• The mark is created and located at the end of dodge.
  
• The mark is affected by Greater Marks
  
• This special Mark of Blood is different from the weapon skill in that:
  
  • It applies 2 rather than 3 stacks of Bleeding.
    
  • It may be active at the same time.
    
  • It disappears after approximately 6 seconds.

[XxKakarot]

http://gw2buildcraft...r.3w.40.3x.4f|e

Burst bleed stacking can be done about every 16 seconds. the rotation goes as follows:
be running to the target while casting to make things easier for you.
staff 3 (chill/psn)
staff 2 (3 stack of bleeds)
Dodge to target and proc Mark of evasion (2 bleeds)
swap weapons to proc sigil of geomancy (3 bleeds)
go into DS right after wep swap to trigger weakening shroud (2 bleeds/weakness)
DS 2 (3 bleeds/chill)
DS 3 (fear)
get out of DS
Scepter 2 (3 bleeds/cripple)
scepter 5 (2 bleeds/weakness)
auto attack to finish or wait for 16s cd on staff 3 to repeat.

total of 18 bleed stacks all within 8 seconds if done right.
NO DUMBFIRE NEEDED

18 stack of bleed ticking for 144 = 2592 a second. this will remain for about 5 seconds which is enough to do almost 13k dmg. this does not include the fear or psn

[Maudric]

Just to add the the Rapid v.s. Carrion debate: your life force total is roughly 60-80% of your total HP, so +vit for a necro means a further 60% increase over any other class in the game (another class gets effective 10hp per +vit, necros get effect +16-18hp).

So yes, toughness is nice because it makes each hp more meaningful, but toughness without vitality is bad. Because of this, I would recommend a mix of both Carrion and Rabid for WvW.

Promising looking build, but it'll be less than perfect in big zergs - this seems like more of a small group roaming build. Amazing for taking camps, scouts, etc, but when you get into a massive zerg, you'll suffer the same problem as other condition builds - a huge excess of area condition removal. With Keep Lords, you could do nothing, and he'll stay at 25 bleed stacks anyways.

Also, I'd replace Master of Terror. You don't really use fear at all, so the 50% upgrade is not very useful. Instead, I would grab Near to Death, which allows more Weakening Shroud Triggers.

DS -> 5 -> DS -> staff condi burst -> dagger condis -> epidemic -> scepter bursts -> DS.

Enemy now has a bunch of bleed, torment, poison, blind, and weakness.

Try it out on the heavy golem in the mists. I can just about promise that he'll be out before you finish your combo (give it about 5 seconds to do). If that happens, you just did 24k damage to a heavy armored target.

Do note though, that this comes from a tank/power necro. I run full Sentinels (+VIT +tough +pow). I'm running 2,800 armor, 34,000hp, 26,000lf, and 3100 attack, so I am not a reputable source for condition management, nor a perfect judge of condition reliant builds.

[XxKakarot]

oh sorry in WvW i use Dire gear w/ rune of scavaging  (if you check out my link on my most recent post you will see my changes.)
In spvp I still use rabid with undead runes

[Maudric]

Definitely approve of Dire gear for WvW, and scavenging is a wonderful pick!

[XxKakarot]

My current stats with this build.

[matthen]

Great thread. Several questions:

1. Most of these builds have slow movement speed. I can't stand hoofing it in WvW. Ever thought of Traveller's runes? I am actually too poor for them, but my alternative solution is too embarrassing to post.  

2. The one second chill on blind trait... what's the big draw of this? It seems like there is only one blind in this build: Dagger 4, which is tempting to hold on to for the condition transfer.

3. Ever thought of Energy sigils? Necro has poor access to vigor and dodge... but the energy sigils clearly cuts into your bleed bomb potential.

I am currently running a 0/30/20/0/20 spectral DS battery. My biggest concern is that I give up too much offense to get defense and mobility.

[XxKakarot]

matthen, on 23 October 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:

Great thread. Several questions:

1. Most of these builds have slow movement speed. I can't stand hoofing it in WvW. Ever thought of Traveller's runes? I am actually too poor for them, but my alternative solution is too embarrassing to post.  

2. The one second chill on blind trait... what's the big draw of this? It seems like there is only one blind in this build: Dagger 4, which is tempting to hold on to for the condition transfer.

3. Ever thought of Energy sigils? Necro has poor access to vigor and dodge... but the energy sigils clearly cuts into your bleed bomb potential.

I am currently running a 0/30/20/0/20 spectral DS battery. My biggest concern is that I give up too much offense to get defense and mobility.

#1 I normally have spectral walk as a utility so going from place to place isnt that hard.
#2 Blind on chill I use when I run with [GF] or with a group mainly for plague form Very usefull in a condi clear heavy fight. I necro with this trait can essentially apply 300 conditions in 20 seconds if we hit all 5 ppl for 20 seconds.
#3 I do use energy sigils for GvG's . but with DS and fears I dont usually need to dodge as much.

[XxKakarot]

Some footage against a heavy condi clear ele
http://www.twitch.tv...karot/c/3362074


Just in case you want build again http://gw2skills.net...6Yp2YGTKAImGB-e

[matthen]

That was an epic fight. It was also quite long. My fights on my necro also seem to go a long time unless I'm fighting someone without condition removal. This made me wonder if I was doing it wrong (at least the "burst" part). Maybe I'm doing okay.

Generally speaking, when a fight goes on that long, both players cycle through major cool downs... essentially "reseting" the match. I couldn't tell what the fight turned on... any insight? It's hard to tell, as the feed appears a little jerky at times.

I don't main my necro, so I'm not an expert. The fight did give me some ideas... your skills are on CD a lot more than mine. I'm wondering if I'm holding back too much.

Anyway, here's the build that I settled on based upon this thread. No dire armor, as it wasn't around at the time I got the equipment. Also, I get permanent swiftness outside of combat by quick swapping in warhorn.

http://gw2buildcraft...|3r.48.46.0.0|e

Hopefully, the link works. This is one of four 80s that I have so I have to spread the ascended equipment around...

Thanks for sharing.