43 replies to this topic

[LiveSpartan235]

  https://www.guildwar...ungeon-rewards/

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Dungeon Rewards

Hello! I’m Isaiah Cartwright, the lead game designer for Guild Wars 2, and I would like to talk to you about some of up upcoming changes to the ways we reward players for participating in dungeons.

Our goal is to make each and every dungeon path feel enticing and rewarding. We also want the rewards structure to encourage players to enjoy a variety of dungeon paths.


To reach these goals, we’ve made a few tweaks to the way dungeon completion is rewarded. Moving forward, the full reward for individual dungeon paths will be on a one-day timer, making it more lucrative to run multiple paths than repeating a single path. This should also increase the rewards for people who only do one dungeon a day. Story dungeons will award 50 silver for completion, and explorable dungeons will award between 1 and 3 gold depending on length and difficulty. As we go on with our project of updating our existing dungeons, we’ll monitor the changes to paths and update the rewards accordingly.

In a related update, we’ve removed the silver you get directly from dungeon bosses, as we have a new champion reward system coming in to place.

Champion Rewards

We’ve been working on a new system for champion-level loot that will raise the payoff of challenging encounters.



All champions in the game will drop a new loot container based on their type. For example, champion bandits will drop a new Embroidered Coin Purse which will contain a few silver, some karma, and crafting materials, with a chance at skill points, rare crafting materials, and new, rare weapon skins. Our goal is to better balance the risks and rewards for fighting champions. This will also make the events that scale to include multiple champions, like those in Orr and Southsun Cove, more rewarding.

[DRKAugumon]

We already had a topic about this....but thanks for posting it?

[LiveSpartan235]

DRKAugumon, on 01 August 2013 - 04:36 PM, said:

We already had a topic about this....but thanks for posting it?

There isn't a thread on this new blog post.

[DRKAugumon]

Not the bog post exactly, but we are having a discussion about it under "Grinding for Rapier"

[LiveSpartan235]

DRKAugumon, on 01 August 2013 - 04:53 PM, said:

Not the bog post exactly, but we are having a discussion about it under "Grinding for Rapier"

Yes I know about that thread but I'm just here posting new GW2 news since this is the news section.

[DRKAugumon]

Mmm..mkay.

[CriticKitten]

I do wish they'd be more honest.

They're not "raising" rewards, they're lowering them.  Oh sure, technically what they've said is correct: for someone who runs one dungeon per day, it's an increase in rewards.  But it's also grossly dishonest in any other light, as the sole purpose of this new system is to discourage people from running dungeons more than once per day.

And all I've got to ask is: why?

Do you really not want people playing your content that badly?  No, they're not playing it for "the enjoyment", they're doing it for money.  So what?  What is inherently wrong with people farming because they want to be well rewarded for their time?

I've never been the sort of person who could farm for long periods of time, but I don't understand the aversion that ANet has to farming.  It truly doesn't make sense.  They keep saying they want people to play the game however they like, but then they insert some form of time-gating onto every new piece of content they create or revise.  Because apparently it's okay to play the game however you like, so long as you only play in ways that the devs personally approve of.

Look at how much they loaded up Southsun with rewards in their most recent patch there, and yet...the place is practically a damn ghost town.  Why?  Because in general, people don't find that place fun OR rewarding.  All of the rewards are either time-gated or locked behind a mandate that's difficult to maintain, and the monsters there are rather poorly balanced in terms of time vs reward as well.

It just seems to me like they don't really "get" why people don't bother with large portions of their content.  Why so many meta events, dungeon paths, and champions go without any significant activity for days and weeks and even months.  And yet, the answer's pretty simple: because they're not fun and rewarding enough.  So their solution is to time-gate said content so that you can only do it once per day, and they think this will suddenly spark a ton of players running dungeon paths they wouldn't touch in the past?

It's not fun nor rewarding to be told that you can only play in each of their sandboxes once per day.  The game stops being fun and starts becoming a checklist of things to do each day when you put everything behind a time-gate.

It's not enough to just make things have lots of rewards.  You have to make it FUN, too.  And putting restrictions on your content doesn't help.

[DRKAugumon]

CriticKitten, on 01 August 2013 - 06:24 PM, said:

I do wish they'd be more honest.

They're not "raising" rewards, they're lowering them.  Oh sure, technically what they've said is correct: for someone who runs one dungeon per day, it's an increase in rewards.  But it's also grossly dishonest in any other light, as the sole purpose of this new system is to discourage people from running dungeons more than once per day.

And all I've got to ask is: why?

Do you really not want people playing your content that badly?  No, they're not playing it for "the enjoyment", they're doing it for money.  So what?  What is inherently wrong with people farming because they want to be well rewarded for their time?

I've never been the sort of person who could farm for long periods of time, but I don't understand the aversion that ANet has to farming.  It truly doesn't make sense.  They keep saying they want people to play the game however they like, but then they insert some form of time-gating onto every new piece of content they create or revise.  Because apparently it's okay to play the game however you like, so long as you only play in ways that the devs personally approve of.

Look at how much they loaded up Southsun with rewards in their most recent patch there, and yet...the place is practically a damn ghost town.  Why?  Because in general, people don't find that place fun OR rewarding.  All of the rewards are either time-gated or locked behind a mandate that's difficult to maintain, and the monsters there are rather poorly balanced in terms of time vs reward as well.

It just seems to me like they don't really "get" why people don't bother with large portions of their content.  Why so many meta events, dungeon paths, and champions go without any significant activity for days and weeks and even months.  And yet, the answer's pretty simple: because they're not fun and rewarding enough.  So their solution is to time-gate said content so that you can only do it once per day, and they think this will suddenly spark a ton of players running dungeon paths they wouldn't touch in the past?

It's not fun nor rewarding to be told that you can only play in each of their sandboxes once per day.  The game stops being fun and starts becoming a checklist of things to do each day when you put everything behind a time-gate.

It's not enough to just make things have lots of rewards.  You have to make it FUN, too.  And putting restrictions on your content doesn't help.

Actually people still farm champs....alot...and its more nerfing the content because its possible to get large quantities of loot really fast from doing things like CoF P1 so they are making it a daily chest and then decreasing rewards each time, it makes sense so people cant get alot of loot and gold really really fast because of a 10 minute dungeon path...

[Reina Takayama]

I'm not sure if it is a big nerf to the dungeons... Don't people farm CoF for all the normal loot u get off normal mobs and everything in TOTAL? That hasn't been nerfed right? People can definitely still farm them like 10 - 15 min runs.. It's just the final/chest rewards or something that has been changed? Isn't it just an ADDITION, or almost buff to the unique dungeon paths u run?

[DRKAugumon]

i dunno, maybe i understood it wrong, but im pretty sure it will nerf loot rewards too...

[CriticKitten]

DRKAugumon, on 01 August 2013 - 06:36 PM, said:

Actually people still farm champs....alot...

No, people really don't do that.

There are dozens of champion monsters out there that are almost perpetually available to fight, not because the event's designed to be that way but because no one ever tries to kill them.  That's why they're adding the change to champion mobs: because most people don't consider them worth the effort.

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and its more nerfing the content because its possible to get large quantities of loot really fast from doing things like CoF P1 so they are making it a daily chest and then decreasing rewards each time, it makes sense so people cant get alot of loot and gold really really fast because of a 10 minute dungeon path...

I'm not sure you read my post.

I know what they're doing, but that isn't the same as why.  If people actually enjoy farming, there's absolutely no reason to discourage them from farming whatsoever if your game is really all about "playing the way you want to", as they keep saying.

[DRKAugumon]

CriticKitten, on 01 August 2013 - 09:27 PM, said:

No, people really don't do that.

There are dozens of champion monsters out there that are almost perpetually available to fight, not because the event's designed to be that way but because no one ever tries to kill them.  That's why they're adding the change to champion mobs: because most people don't consider them worth the effort.

I'm not sure you read my post.

I know what they're doing, but that isn't the same as why.  If people actually enjoy farming, there's absolutely no reason to discourage them from farming whatsoever if your game is really all about "playing the way you want to", as they keep saying.

Im sorry, have you BEEN to queensdale? The champ farming off the f---ing whazooo!

[Reina Takayama]

DRKAugumon, on 01 August 2013 - 09:33 PM, said:

Im sorry, have you BEEN to queensdale? The champ farming off the f---ing whazooo!

Not sure if that's champ farming, I thought it was more event farming for achievements or easy kills and stuff xD idk, maybe it is though. I'm always there but its always for events and partying xD

CriticKitten, on 01 August 2013 - 09:27 PM, said:

No, people really don't do that.

There are dozens of champion monsters out there that are almost perpetually available to fight, not because the event's designed to be that way but because no one ever tries to kill them.  That's why they're adding the change to champion mobs: because most people don't consider them worth the effort.

I'm not sure you read my post.

I know what they're doing, but that isn't the same as why.  If people actually enjoy farming, there's absolutely no reason to discourage them from farming whatsoever if your game is really all about "playing the way you want to", as they keep saying.

Are they for sure nerfing actual content loot from mobs? like did they say they're removing that all together and only giving the unique dungeon path reward..? Once again, my impression is that the full end of path rewards or maybe chests will be nerfed or removed and replaced with the dungeon path reward. But most people actually get a lot of gold just from farming mobs and random normal drops throughout the dungeon and sell or do whatever with the total of it, since it is a fast run. If that hasn't been nerfed, then Anets not actually taking away farming of dungeons.. people will and can still farm it for the total money they get from it

[DRKAugumon]

Reina Takayama, on 01 August 2013 - 09:58 PM, said:

Not sure if that's champ farming, I thought it was more event farming for achievements or easy kills and stuff xD idk, maybe it is though. I'm always there but its always for events and partying xD


Are they for sure nerfing actual content loot from mobs? like did they say they're removing that all together and only giving the unique dungeon path reward..? Once again, my impression is that the full end of path rewards or maybe chests will be nerfed or removed and replaced with the dungeon path reward. But most people actually get a lot of gold just from farming mobs and random normal drops throughout the dungeon and sell or do whatever with the total of it, since it is a fast run. If that hasn't been nerfed, then Anets not actually taking away farming of dungeons.. people will and can still farm it for the total money they get from it

No, reina, you go there, its champs, thats the only decent thing there. I just did a survey, 17 people said they were there for champ farming.

[TwoWaysyaWowT]

DRKAugumon, on 01 August 2013 - 10:20 PM, said:

No, reina, you go there, its champs, thats the only decent thing there. I just did a survey, 17 people said they were there for champ farming.

The funny thing is, you actually do make more money/karma/xp by doing events in general instead of waiting for a champion to spawn.  But farming champs in Queensdale?  For what, leather bags?  The only champ in that zone that really drops anything worthwhile is Shadow Behemoth.  This is why other zones, such as Wayfarer Foothills and Timberline Falls are so popular...because of the proximity of events.  You don't have to wander all over the zone just to find one 'cause in zones like those, they're practically right next to each other.  I can do riddles, go down the street and knock out a few rampaging minotaurs, go a little bit further down the street and save the bears from Svarnir, go a little further and do the three-tiered winged horror, come out and slay the broodmother, go back up the street a tad bit and do the wolf pack run, then I'll be in the neighborhood to save the leopards from the dredge as well as the dredge champ in the mines.  One, right after the other with very little down time and I'm not losing money by having to use waypoints to go from troll to boar to oakheart, etc.  Er, nor am I losing money by waiting around for specific events, either.  Also, I can simply go up one zone "tier" and practically have the whooooole place to myself...Kessex Hills for example.  That place is almost always empty or maybe two or three others might be there.  But I can run the Fort Salma chain.  Over.  And over.  And over.  Or go krait fishing if I want a change of scenery.  And the funny thing is is that it's still ridiculously easy to do but for whatever reason(s), people are afraid to venture out past the starter zones...'cause really...if this was honestly about champions and good loot, then Orr should be the most crowded zone by far but it actually tends to be one of the emptiest.

[DRKAugumon]

TwoWaysyaWowT, on 01 August 2013 - 10:42 PM, said:

The funny thing is, you actually do make more money/karma/xp by doing events in general instead of waiting for a champion to spawn.  But farming champs in Queensdale?  For what, leather bags?  The only champ in that zone that really drops anything worthwhile is Shadow Behemoth.  This is why other zones, such as Wayfarer Foothills and Timberline Falls are so popular...because of the proximity of events.  You don't have to wander all over the zone just to find one 'cause in zones like those, they're practically right next to each other.  I can do riddles, go down the street and knock out a few rampaging minotaurs, go a little bit further down the street and save the bears from Svarnir, go a little further and do the three-tiered winged horror, come out and slay the broodmother, go back up the street a tad bit and do the wolf pack run, then I'll be in the neighborhood to save the leopards from the dredge as well as the dredge champ in the mines.  One, right after the other with very little down time and I'm not losing money by having to use waypoints to go from troll to boar to oakheart, etc.  Er, nor am I losing money by waiting around for specific events, either.  Also, I can simply go up one zone "tier" and practically have the whooooole place to myself...Kessex Hills for example.  That place is almost always empty or maybe two or three others might be there.  But I can run the Fort Salma chain.  Over.  And over.  And over.  Or go krait fishing if I want a change of scenery.  And the funny thing is is that it's still ridiculously easy to do but for whatever reason(s), people are afraid to venture out past the starter zones...'cause really...if this was honestly about champions and good loot, then Orr should be the most crowded zone by far but it actually tends to be one of the emptiest.

Its easier to kill queen's dale compared to Orr, but you have a point, people just dont want to explore, they want clean and simple...

[TwoWaysyaWowT]

DRKAugumon, on 01 August 2013 - 10:47 PM, said:

Its easier to kill queen's dale compared to Orr, but you have a point, people just dont want to explore, they want clean and simple...

I don't really blame them, either.  As they say, work smarter, not harder?

[Reina Takayama]

Personally if I am to farm, I farm Orr events. Especially if u bring a party. Whether I complete a balth or arah chain doesn't matter , just do the back to back down the road events bc there are just so many mobs spawning and so much loot non stop, great source of gold. I hate running CoF for stuff cuz I have to go there with a party intentionally and all these limitations, i can do the same farming with more mobs in Orr back to back for hours straight. I used to be a much more hardcore full time player haha now I just chill but yeah

But for Queensdale ppl say they're there for champions bc they're champion EVENTS. It's not bc they drop good loot cuz they just don't, half the time they don't even drop anything but it's cuz it is a good group event, easy to kill, and counts for a myriad of achieves or exp or karma etc. but their drops are terrible. Until they implement this champion loot thing Queensdale champio s events are for the Events rather than the actual drop reward

[TwoWaysyaWowT]

Reina Takayama, on 01 August 2013 - 11:48 PM, said:

Personally if I am to farm, I farm Orr events. Especially if u bring a party. Whether I complete a balth or arah chain doesn't matter , just do the back to back down the road events bc there are just so many mobs spawning and so much loot non stop, great source of gold. I hate running CoF for stuff cuz I have to go there with a party intentionally and all these limitations, i can do the same farming with more mobs in Orr back to back for hours straight. I used to be a much more hardcore full time player haha now I just chill but yeah

But for Queensdale ppl say they're there for champions bc they're champion EVENTS. It's not bc they drop good loot cuz they just don't, half the time they don't even drop anything but it's cuz it is a good group event, easy to kill, and counts for a myriad of achieves or exp or karma etc. but their drops are terrible. Until they implement this champion loot thing Queensdale champio s events are for the Events rather than the actual drop reward

No, he's right for the most part.  People actually farm champions in Queensdale and refuse to do anything else.  Read the map chat if you don't believe me.  They'll kill, say, the troll and they will set up a tent with some hot dogs and marshmallows over an open fire in the cave until somebody else calls another champion event.  But it HAS to be a champion event...nothing else.  Why that is, I has no idea 'cause if I'm in the neighborhood, I don't have a problem with picking apples or herding moas 'cause events are events and that means more money, xp, and karma.  And if I'm really lucky with these wooden chests, then maaaaaybe an exotic drops as in the case of a skritt dropping a chest that had Kymswarden in it.  But that's just a tad bit too rare to even count if you ask me so, again, I has no idea what the champ fetish is all about in the lower zones.

[Reina Takayama]

TwoWaysyaWowT, on 02 August 2013 - 12:08 AM, said:

No, he's right for the most part.  People actually farm champions in Queensdale and refuse to do anything else.  Read the map chat if you don't believe me.  They'll kill, say, the troll and they will set up a tent with some hot dogs and marshmallows over an open fire in the cave until somebody else calls another champion event.  But it HAS to be a champion event...nothing else.  Why that is, I has no idea 'cause if I'm in the neighborhood, I don't have a problem with picking apples or herding moas 'cause events are events and that means more money, xp, and karma.  And if I'm really lucky with these wooden chests, then maaaaaybe an exotic drops as in the case of a skritt dropping a chest that had Kymswarden in it.  But that's just a tad bit too rare to even count if you ask me so, again, I has no idea what the champ fetish is all about in the lower zones.

I am one of these queensdale champion campers... So I know lol. I'm there a lot too checking map chat but these champ events are often the boar, wasp, troll and even oak are up all the time. There's almost never an end and its easy free kills. But I'm saying "he" or whoever is wrong because ppl don't seem to be there for loot. At least me nor my friends are there for loot cus it doesnt drop anything good most of the time. Heck half the time there isn't even loot. So what are ppl there for? All I can say is I do it for achieves maybe others do it for karma or exp or something else but these events are back to back so I'm saying ppl are there for the champion EVENTS. Not champions and their drops themselves actually

Once this patch comes in then there's going to be even more champion event farmers this time ppl there for the loot prospective actually