31 replies to this topic

[Aduah]

Hello friends.

I need some help getting my friend going with a viable Warrior build that can be used to easily solo camps and would be useful for small group havoc and engagements with real players.

this is what he currently runs http://gw2skills.net...q9HewEDZAM3CA-w

Any help is appreciated, any build that might help encompass using the armour and runes he already has would be fantastic, if possible. Any viable build that would encompass the weapon set he already uses would be helpful, as he is comfortable using these weapons and has been for many year (albeit in PvE).

If the build needs to be completely scrapped, this is understandable too. Our 1st goal in making him into a competent WvW player is giving him the ability to solo camps and do so efficiently. Any advices on this subject would be helpful.

Unfortunately I don't really play warrior so I can't be of any help to him what so ever. Please keep in mind he is playing from the mindset of a player almost completely new to WvW. The only thing he understands completely is how to pull camps and break line of sight. Beyond that he is having trouble surviving killing all the guards. So please keep this in mind when providing any advices.

Thanks so much in advance.

[Plainsman]

1st thing that would probably help him, is Energy sigil on both weapons. dodge roll mobility is pertinent to staying alive and continuing pressure. over use the condi clear and adrenaline gain from weapon swapping. And I prefer Merciless Hammer over Burst Mastery in the Discipline line.

just the first things that come to mind.

[QueenEtna]

Lol boon of lyssa... lolol ok uhm so taking camps roaming or fighting roaming?
Heres what i been using to roam with http://gw2skills.net...m38m38mFCQwYA-w

[Aduah]

Thanks for the thoughts, both of you. I'll pass it along.

QueenEtna, on 02 August 2015 - 02:04 AM, said:

Lol boon of lyssa... lolol ok uhm so taking camps roaming or fighting roaming?
Heres what i been using to roam with http://gw2skills.net...m38m38mFCQwYA-w

I think What I ran on my warrior pre recent change was something very similar, but alas I couldn't flip a camp with it either. Granted, I'd get annoyed when I died, and would just go get back on my Engi, because fuck warrior. lolol.

[QueenEtna]

I manage to cap camps fine you just gotta pull the guys slowly.. if you use beserker stance the annoying female nps cant blind you..

[Slein Jinn]

There is a lot wrong with that build.  Warrior Offhand Axe is one of the worst weapons in the game across all classes.  There is absolutely no rhyme or reason to those slot skills.  The Arms line just isn't very good outside of Sword+Sword/Longbow condi builds.  At least he's got the foundation of Defense/Discipline traits pretty much right.  

THIS is pretty much the go-to Warrior build right now.  If you want to go further, look at Biff's "Blowhard Bruiser" thread--we've had extensive discussion of Warrior builds in that thread.  

Plainsman, on 02 August 2015 - 01:45 AM, said:

1st thing that would probably help him, is Energy sigil on both weapons.

Terrible advice.  Never put the same on-swap Sigil on both weapons in a Warrior build.  Warriors have a 4s cooldown on weapon swap, and the Sigils have a 9s cooldown, so you're just wasting the second sigil.

[Liric]

http://gw2skills.net.../93f/93SB03wK-w

This is what I'm currently running with the Hoelbrak rune variation. One could also use Krait, Tormenting, Melandru, or even something like Forgeman. I've tried Giver's weapons but found it overall effective with ordinary stats until Anet decides to release an ascended version. However, for someone only able to afford exotic, Giver's may be equally viable.

If you don't feel you're able to time the Doom sigil's poison well enough to effect their heal, Cleansing could give you even more condition removal. One could easily take another stance over Endure Pain. Another variation could be Bull's Charge, but I find it invaluable for all of gap closing, escape, and throwing people off who weren't expecting any CC from the build. Put whatever you want over it if you don't like it. Just some variation ideas.

This is a hybrid build with your damage distribution roughly 65/35 between conditions and direct, depending on what you are fighting against. I've still been able to crit people for ~7k with Final Thrust; Arcing Arrow is decent as well. The conditions themselves will end people who aren't specced to dump them often.

I don't know how friendly this would be to a new player - I find myself cancelling and masking animations a lot as part of my basic fighting style...warriors lack a lot of the "tricks" that other classes have, so I feel you're forced to perfect the basics. This might be an experience he likes, but he also might enjoy it more with a more standard direct damage setup. What Slein said is pretty meta (because it's effective)...and he's right that Defense/Discipline are trees you will find in most any build.

[Silvernis]

Liric, on 02 August 2015 - 10:29 AM, said:

http://gw2skills.net.../93f/93SB03wK-w

I'm running something close-ish to this, and while it's still a WIP, I think it's pretty effective overall (and fun to play). Not as smashy-smashy in your face as GS and hammer, but it brings a fair number of tricks to the table, and the heavy bleeds can take people by surprise. [/2cents]

[Aduah]

Thanks for the advices.  I had him buy a GS last night. I figured a lot of the builds would end up focusing GS. Hes highly uncomfortable with GS, but in time he can become more comfortable with it, like anything thats new.

I didn't dig through any of Biff's threads because I figured most of the stuff/theories in there would be aimed at advanced play, and I was looking for something that will help give him some lift before trying to do anything more advanced.

I'm sure he will take a look at this thread here a little later. I would still love to hear any other builds/takes for a warrior new to WvW/sPvP in general thanks for the replies.

[Biff Rangoon]

There's a range of options that have been suggested that should get your friend going. The h/gs builds are effective and will require the least extra gear purchase. One thing that really stuck out to me about the current build was the use of Trooper Runes with just the one shout. So those should probably go.

A traited greatsword is really the fastest way to clear a camp now, so your friend will come to love it. If s/he pulls a whole camp into one bunch and uses all three of the stances most people have recommended, you can seriously clear the camp in 20s or less. GS2 -> F1 -> GS3 (into a wall/object) -> [swap] -> F1 -> H2 and then finish off anything still standing using the Hammer auto (if any). With those stances, barely any damage will be taken. Face roll easy and almost no chance to be interrupted by a defender (they won't get swords on the map until it's too late).

This is the what I've been running for the last while, making small variations as the mood strikes me (like Frenzy for the extra quickness, or Bull's Charge for the knockdown). The traited shield allows me to stack lots of might, stay in a fight longer, and get the lulz when I kill scubby pew pew rangers who don't realize they're killing themselves. Shield 4 is a nice interrupt for either the immobilize (sword F1) into 100b, or Final Thrust. Final Thrust can cleave 10-12k with might stacks. Sword 2 is also excellent. H/gs has more damage overall though, and the aoe cc is pretty amazing, especially in havoc.

The food choice is for cheapness, with lemongrass being a more expensive and effective choice (same with Superior stones over Hardened). Hoelbrak might also be a more optimal rune choice, though I personally prefer the permanent Fury uptime, swiftness, and party benefits that Pack runes bring. I haven't done the math, so Pack may also be the optimal choice unless you're getting buried in condis.

Also, fwiw, a lot of the builds I've been posting aren't really for advanced players, but they're not really optimal either. They're more experimental, trying to figure an angle that could give a leg up in certain circumstances. You were probably right not to look at those builds because the ol' standards (like the h/gs) are generally better.

Also, simple pro-tip for your friend. With the Strength line you get Reckless Dodge as a minor, which does quite a bit of aoe damage when you dodge into people. So try to do that as much as possible when dodging. In fact, a fairly standard greatsword opener I use against real people goes:

• GS4 Bladetrail: Get two reasonably good hits on a bunch of people (approx 5k), applying cripple
  
• Dodge into them: for usually about 2-3k on a crit to anyone in my way (that nobody thinks to dodge)
  
• GS3 Whirwilnd: To do roughly 6.5k damage to anyone clustered, evading damage along the way

You do a lot of damage and you often dodge or evade much of their opening damage. If you have might stacks or any other buffs on you the damage is obviously higher. The highest Reckless Dodge I've heard of is in the 8k range, which is stupidly broken. My Reckless Dodges are usually in the 3-4.5k range during a fight with my might applied.

EDIT: Unless running with a group, I've decided Hoelbrak is better than Pack for this build due to the fury Arcing Slice brings. I'm going to run with Strength runes for now though, since I have a set of those, I don't feel underpowered against conditions, and it'll mean even MOAR KILLING POWER!!!

[KaiX]

Oh good lord, where do I start.  Ok so, thing 1, S/Axe needs to go.  I understand whirling around is fun and flurry is pretty amazing, but we'r roaming/flipping camps here.  Get yourself a GS/Hammer setup and you'll do ok.  Get yourself an impact sigil atleast since you're going to be using hammer and it's a lot of free damage because of warriors stupid amount of chain cc(I should know it's what kills me in duels most of the time >.>).  On greatsword, air/fire is the way to go personally.  

Thing 2)  My god those utility slots, pray to lyssa has got to go, you are a warrior, you have berserker stance, learn to love it.

Thing 3)  You are using trooper runes with only one shout, no.  Bad.  A warrior shouldn't be running trooper runes now anyways, hell no one really should.  Get yourself some Hoelbrak runes or if you're on a budget you can get by with privateer.  

Thing 4)  If you're going to take arms, and since we'll be running hammer/gs here, there is absolutely NO reason not to take unsuspecting foe and burst precision.  Also I would personally take Merciless Hammer over Burst Mastery but eh.

Thing 5) SINISTER WEAPONS?  *slap*  

http://gw2skills.net...YiZjLAAhAKvFA-w

That right there, is your basic ham/gs setup and it'll get you through.  It'll take a bit of getting used to, but it's the easiest warrior spec I can think of for roaming.

[Slein Jinn]

Biff Rangoon, on 02 August 2015 - 11:51 AM, said:

You were probably right not to look at those builds because the ol' standards (like the h/gs) are generally better.

I recommended that thread for the extensive discussion rather than for the build itself.  The posts deeper into the Blowhard Bruiser thread cover the whys and hows of good Warrior builds.  I'm not going to take the time to re-hash all of that stuff here.  

KaiX, on 02 August 2015 - 12:13 PM, said:

Get yourself an impact sigil atleast since you're going to be using hammer and it's a lot of free damage because of warriors stupid amount of chain cc(I should know it's what kills me in duels most of the time >.>).  

Fuck Impact.  Air/Fire+Hydro/Leeching is where it's at for a glass Warrior.  

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Thing 3)  You are using trooper runes with only one shout, no.  Bad.  A warrior shouldn't be running trooper runes now anyways, hell no one really should.  Get yourself some Hoelbrak runes or if you're on a budget you can get by with privateer.  

Trooper with only one Shout is bad, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with Trooper Runes in general.  They're still great on proper Shout builds.  I use Trooper Runes in my favoured roaming build, even.  

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Thing 4)  If you're going to take arms, and since we'll be running hammer/gs here, there is absolutely NO reason not to take unsuspecting foe and burst precision.  

Better solution: Just don't take Arms.  

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Also I would personally take Merciless Hammer over Burst Mastery but eh.

In a Hammer/GS build, I'd take Heightened Focus over both of them.

[Biff Rangoon]

Slein Jinn, on 02 August 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:

I recommended that thread for the extensive discussion rather than for the build itself.  The posts deeper into the Blowhard Bruiser thread cover the whys and hows of good Warrior builds.  I'm not going to take the time to re-hash all of that stuff here.  

I know and agree. I was responding to her comment that most of my builds, etc. were probably for more advanced play.

[Aduah]

Biff Rangoon, on 02 August 2015 - 11:51 AM, said:

-snip-

Thanks biff, I was hoping you'd reply. Good stuff, Thank you for the insight on the rotation I hope this will help him alot. He's learned from me, so he pulls camps all on top of himself.

KaiX, on 02 August 2015 - 12:13 PM, said:

Thing 5) SINISTER WEAPONS?  *slap*  

Haha yeaaaa, thats the 1st thing I noticed when he sent me his build. I was like oh noes, that has to go. Condi isn't going to do you and good.

The reason for the trooper runes was to help offset the loss of toughness and vitality since he he decided to go all zerk. I was planning on recommending stepping him up to Hoelbrack or Strength when he can survive better. Also at this point its stupidly expensive for him (aren't they still around 10 gold a rune)

[KaiX]

Aduah, on 02 August 2015 - 10:06 PM, said:

Thanks biff, I was hoping you'd reply. Good stuff, Thank you for the insight on the rotation I hope this will help him alot. He's learned from me, so he pulls camps all on top of himself.



Haha yeaaaa, thats the 1st thing I noticed when he sent me his build. I was like oh noes, that has to go. Condi isn't going to do you and good.

The reason for the trooper runes was to help offset the loss of toughness and vitality since he he decided to go all zerk. I was planning on recommending stepping him up to Hoelbrack or Strength when he can survive better. Also at this point its stupidly expensive for him (aren't they still around 10 gold a rune)

Strength is a bit expensive flirting around 12g, hoelbrak is around 7-8g give or take.

[Liric]

I have Hoelbrak over Strength mostly for the condition duration reduction.

[matthen]

Well... there is a lot of advice already in this thread.

I am not sure I have heard anyone (anywhere) articulate a good answer to how a warrior fits into an optimal five-man havoc comp. However, for flipping un-upgraded camps, pretty much any build will work... including the one in the OP. You don't even need to use your utility skills. You just have to understand target priority and game mechanics. Use LoS effectively. PvE, at least at that level, is easy.

For very simple warrior advice that can be used against players and won't cost that much cash:

1. Trait lines: Strength, defense, discipline. In theory, you can swap in Tactics for Strength to get more group support. However, it strikes me that you wouldn't want to be nearly as glassy as the build in the OP if you were running Tactics, and you might even want to add some healing power. In my view, this requires some theorycrafting and experimentation. I would not recommend it for your friend. I have also seen some strength, arms, discipline builds that seem interesting for full YOLO play. I would not recommend these for a beginner, except for messing around.

2. Don't use runes to make the build tankier. Mix in soldier gear. Just don't let your base critical chance drop below 25-30%... and only be as tanky as you need to be to stay alive. For a cheap rune set that works decently, try privateer. Yarr.... If money is not an issue, Hoelbrak is my goto warrior runes for WvW roaming. Strength and Pack aren't bad, depending on your build.

3. I clear camps best using longbow/greatsword ("greatbow"). If I was limited to three weapons in my pack, they would be hammer, greatsword, and longbow. All zerker. Other weapon combos work well... but those three span the range of havoc play.

At the moment, I am mostly running a frenzy, Bulls Charge, heightened focus, greatbow build. Air/fire on bow, and hydromancy/bloodlust on greatsword. Banner when I run with Biff. Otherwise Rampage. I am not 100% happy with it... but it works. I frequently swap in hammer for bow.

Good luck.

[Slein Jinn]

matthen, on 03 August 2015 - 09:42 PM, said:

I am not sure I have heard anyone (anywhere) articulate a good answer to how a warrior fits into an optimal five-man havoc comp.

Unfortunately, I think probably the answer is that it doesn't.  

There seem to be two best candidates for Warriors right now.  One is a full zerker build that basically tries to just win team fights through pure brute force with Rampage.  The other is a support-ish Shout build like what I discussed extensively in Biff's thread.  A few of the particulars for both builds are open to debate, but I don't think any configuration of either is really truly optimal right now.  Zerker Warrior just doesn't offer anything comparable to what other DPS builds can bring outside of Rampage, and Rampage is eminently counterable.  Support builds are probably a slightly more encouraging prospect in my opinion because they fit into a bit of a gap between Eles and Guardians, but those competitors are just so strong that I still don't see Warrior being optimal.  It's worth mentioning that Shout Warrior does work better in WvW than it does in sPvP, though, because of the ability to use a blend of Zealot/Cleric/Celestial stats.  Warrior offers more consistent and reliable team support than a D/X Elementalist and more CC/Damage than a Bunker Guardian, so that's where I'd try to build them in if you're going to use Warriors, but honestly it's probably better to just use Elementalists and Guardians.  

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1. Trait lines: Strength, defense, discipline. In theory, you can swap in Tactics for Strength to get more group support. However, it strikes me that you wouldn't want to be nearly as glassy as the build in the OP if you were running Tactics, and you might even want to add some healing power. In my view, this requires some theorycrafting and experimentation. I would not recommend it for your friend. I have also seen some strength, arms, discipline builds that seem interesting for full YOLO play. I would not recommend these for a beginner, except for messing around.

PvE meta is probably Strength+Arms+Tactics if I had to guess, but for WvW/PvP, you basically always want to build around Defense+Discipline; from there add Strength for DPS builds, Tactics for support builds, or Arms for condition builds.  There are a couple of exceptions, but for the most part, if you follow that simple rule, you'll never go wrong.  

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2. Don't use runes to make the build tankier. Mix in soldier gear. Just don't let your base critical chance drop below 25-30%... and only be as tanky as you need to be to stay alive. For a cheap rune set that works decently, try privateer. Yarr.... If money is not an issue, Hoelbrak is my goto warrior runes for WvW roaming. Strength and Pack aren't bad, depending on your build.

Generally solid advice.  

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3. I clear camps best using longbow/greatsword ("greatbow"). If I was limited to three weapons in my pack, they would be hammer, greatsword, and longbow. All zerker. Other weapon combos work well... but those three span the range of havoc play.

You're a closet Euro at heart.  There was always a bit of a disconnect between the regions on zerker Warrior builds, with NA favouring Greatsword/Hammer and EU favouring Greatsword/Longbow.  Post-23rd June, Greatbow had been kind of falling away, though, even on EU, because Berserker's Power didn't work with Combustive Shot.  But they fixed that with the latest patch, and now, the fact that you can't miss Combustive Shot like you can Earthshaker will probably see Greatsword/Longbow not only make a resurgence but come out more popular than ever.

[Biff Rangoon]

Slein (or anyone), what's the ideal gear setup for running gs/lb in wvw (roaming and havoc)?

The reason I ask is I recall comments about 800 condi damage becoming some sort of magic number before condis would start to hurt.

Going full zerk on a bow would seem way less valuable than on a hammer, hence the question.

As for clearing camps, you could practically use an oven mit as your alt set to a traited gs now and still clear before swords. It's that strong on a cluster.

[Slein Jinn]

Full Berserker is perfectly fine with Longbow.  Like I said in your thread, basically always build around your other weapon, because Longbow works with pretty much anything.  Its about the most balanced weapon there is in terms of where its damage comes from.  You can out trade most builds at range with just Longbow auto attacks.