31 replies to this topic

[matthen]

I do not think I have ever been called a "closet euro" before.

[Slein Jinn]

First time for everything, ol' chum.  I guess you're stepping up in the world.

[Tooth Fairy]

This is my build template for Sw/Sh GS. It's pretty much a standard build I used for roaming or w/ people I don't know them well. It's all exotics except the trinkets which he can get pretty easily.The runes are cheap and the set provides enough tankiness, condi cleanse, power and training wheels for new players.The armor can be purchased w/ karma (temple armors sold by Benson at temple near Arah Dungeon entrance). Just make sure he doesn't put expensive runes in temple armors.

War Template 1

The same set can also be used to run w/ zergs, w/ a little change in trinkets & swap weapons to Hammer/War horn or Banner instead of SoR like this

War Template 2

This set will last him a long time before he decides to go w/ ascended stuffs because mistakes made in ascended stuffs are very expensive.

Ed1: Food & buff are not normally included in build to see trade-off between variations.
Ed2:You can also replace all of the soldiers armor w/ zerker armors (temple armors sold by keeper zonez). But if that's the case, the new player already knows the profession well, then it's better go for the power creep build w/ all the expensive stuffs.

[matthen]

Slein Jinn, on 04 August 2015 - 01:06 PM, said:

Full Berserker is perfectly fine with Longbow.

Yes. Full zerk is fine.

I currently run Zerk + 3 Pieces of Knights. However, I am going to swap my Knights slots into either Zerker or Soldier... I just haven't decided how many of each. It is my sense that a little soldier's gear strikes a better balance than full zerk for most of my applications... although this is more important for running hammer than LB.

Regarding my Frenzy build mentioned above... I messed around a little last night and decided that Frenzy is probably best for shits and giggles (only). I am sticking with Bulls Charge or Zerker Stance, Balanced Stance, Endure Pain for serious work...

I want to figure out a shout build, but I don't want to invest in Zealots. So that project is on hold, unless I can make it condi-shouts (which I am still kind-of considering)

[Biff Rangoon]

I'm surprised about the zerk bow, but maybe I can duel you to see how it works.

The surprise is that a lot of the direct damage is coming from LB3, which is easily dodged, and then some from Combustive, which is even easier.

Sure, you have some aoe ranged pressure, but hammer seems better suited to zerk and then it's got the heavy cc right in the middle of a melee, which strikes me as more valuable than a zerk fire field.

If someone else provides fire fields, then we're looking at comparable aoe might.

My current build (heavy stance gs/s+sh) has me playing the role of a low rent thief that trades stealth for much better staying power in combat. Fun, but not a tonne of group contribution aside from seriously harrassing opponents (you can stick to then like glue).

Any of these builds will clear a camp, obviously. It'd be interesting to see which does better in duels and then which contributes more to a group fight. If the whole "focused from range" thing can be solved, I'm not sure why h/gs wouldn't contribute the most.

[Slein Jinn]

You need to go back and re-read your own threads, because we covered most of this when I first mentioned roaming on Shoutbow/Hambow builds.  

It mostly comes back to trading.  Combustive Shot means that you can almost always out trade basically anything but a Power Ranger.  (Caveat: although technically you'll probably out trade a Mesmer, a Mesmer is the one class that almost never has to actually trade.)  At range, your basic Auto Attacks alone will out trade many builds, and if your opponent can't out trade you at range, they have to melee on your terms, which translates to inside your Combustive Shot.  And Combustive Shot means that you can trade favourably in melee against almost anything.  Longbow gives you more influence over the flow of a fight than any other weapon.  

You're also just really underestimating some of the skills.  Arcing Arrow isn't that easy to dodge if you use it at melee range--sure, it has a tell and you can dodge it, but it's harder to dodge than anything on the Hammer.  Fan of Fire also hits like a truck, even in Power builds.  The Power damage is strong to begin with, and even without any condition damage, the burns aren't negligible; in total, it easily hits as hard as Fierce Blow, but it's far easier to land.  You've also got a great Blind and a big Immobilise.  Don't underestimate the value of those for control and defense.  

Furthermore, like I said in my previous post, since they fixed it, Combustive Shot is the most reliable way to trigger Berserker's Power, which is kind of a big deal.  It's really easy to dodge, block, or blind Earthshakers, which then denies you a huge component of your damage in a Hammer build, but Combustive Shot can't miss, so you're always getting that buff.

[Liric]

I think one of the best qualities that Arcing Arrow has is that your character can fire it off in directions that don't make any logical sense. It's like people never get used to seeing me fire it out of the back of my head by targeting it behind me for some reason, lol

[Biff Rangoon]

Alright, I'll give it a shot. But if you're wrong you have to send me 250 broken claws for time lost.

The thing that clicked for me on Shoutbow was the burn and might from fire shield, which this doesn't have. In terms of trade, there's nothing a bow can do as far as I can see that out trades a stun lock. True, that stun lock is often breakable or dodgeable, but that's where the skill comes in. With a group fight, it's even easier to land.

If Matt or you are willing to demo, even in a simple duel, I'm sure I'll learn a bunch.

@Liric
Lol, tru dat. I regularly catch people with Arcing Slice and Staggering Blow the same way, though they're more obvious than AS.

[Slein Jinn]

Biff Rangoon, on 04 August 2015 - 04:10 PM, said:

In terms of trade, there's nothing a bow can do as far as I can see that out trades a stun lock.

That's not trading.  If your opponent is stunned, by definition you can't be trading.

[Biff Rangoon]

Slein Jinn, on 04 August 2015 - 04:13 PM, said:

That's not trading.  If your opponent is stunned, by definition you can't be trading.

I see, I meant more over the course of a fight. As in, putting more damage in their bank account then they're putting in mine.

Stun locking closes the bank.

[Slein Jinn]

If you're fighting good opponents, fights are always going to be drawn out--you're never going to just run through a Hammer CC chain and end the fight.  In prolonged fights, trading is one of the most important concepts when looking at matchups.  First you need to understand what trading is, then you need to understand when it is or isn't favourable against which opponents, and from there you can use that to manipulate the way the matchup plays out.

[matthen]

Biff:

I wouldn't say LB/GS is better than hammer/GS, just different. My LB/GS build is actually a viable hammer/GS build post-patch, just by swapping out a single weapon. This opens up some interesting roaming possibilities that I have yet to fully explore.

Note what Slein said about the LB auto attack... imagine air/fire sigils with two chances to crit each auto. Most opponents will decide to close range. With fast hands and traited GS, you can land a lot of WWAs and force melees to chase you while you do what Liric was mentioning (ie, laying damage in a 360). Hammer/GS is still better in melee, but LB/GS does good works.

That's my 2cp.

I'll duel you (of course), but watch some vids online. There are quite a few... and the old ones are still a reasonable representation of basic gameplay. Note I haven't played warrior that much in the last six months... pretty much only to show you how banner works...