62 replies to this topic

[Sorrows]

Next weeks patch notes

These include the non-balance changes too. ( ie wallet, skill points, etc.)

Biggest to me, since attribute bonuses are being moved off trait lines, ascended armor now has a flat +10% over exotic.

[Slein Jinn]

 Azure, on 16 June 2015 - 01:42 AM, said:

I may even try changing to heal to signet of vampirism or something else that doesn't actively punish you for using it. The few optimists on the necro forums have been thinking about weaponizing it with a transfer, but by the time you finish the cast of the transfer the duration will either be gone or you will be dead. Corruptions in general will now be taken even less due to the new found lack of synergy with the new consume conditions, and plague form will be the only elite in the entire game that punishes you for using it. The final kick in the balls for me was the massive nerf to spectral walk that removes the last ability of the Necro to completely get away from other classes. The worst part is that this entire thing is being served alongside the buffs that were what many necro players were looking forward to. That being said, at least they moved terror from GM to master.

The doom and gloom here is absurdly over-the-top.  Consume Conditions is still going to be the go-to heal for Necromancers.  The cooldown increase is probably unwarranted and may need to be re-tuned, but we'll have to wait and see how it plays out along side the really powerful changes they've made to the Blood Magic tree.  Plague will still be an incredibly strong defensive cooldown.  Spectral Walk will still basically do everything it did before except for let you jump off of ridiculously tall things without dying.  Necromancers are, on the whole, getting buffed.  There are a ton of powerful changes throughout the revamped Necromancer traits, addressing a lot of the class's key weaknesses.  We'll have to wait and see how exactly those buffs play out in comparison to the buffs some of the other classes are getting--remember, this patch is basically the Heart of Thorns open beta as far as balance is concerned--but there is absolutely no justification for this "sky is falling" crap about Necromancers.  

The one thing you seem to not be angry about is the one thing in these changes that's actually a significantly important nerf.  Moving Terror to Master makes it compete with Path of Corruption, which is a more important trait and will generally be taken over it.  None of the Grandmaster traits in Curses are as valuable as either Terror or Path of Corruption.

[Silvernis]

 Aduah, on 16 June 2015 - 02:26 AM, said:

Wait, Is this replacing speedy kits?

Master:

• Steamlined Kits: Equipping a kit creates and attack or spell and grants you 10s of swiftness. This trait has a 20 second internal cooldown.

If so, Fuck guildwars. ;-; I'm not going to play if I have to be slow 50% of the time.

I hope its not. On second look at some of the traits, plus only being able to have 3 trait lines active at a time, is really going to fuck me up. It took me forever to learn how to play effectively. I really don't wanna have to relearn how to play Engineer. Its the only class I know how to play about 60% effectively. Every other class is about at 5% effectiveness, so the new changes  on those don't bother me much.

And now I'm nervous again. The revised traits look mostly OK—with the exception of speedy kits, because I want to have my cake and eat it too and I wanna go fast and screw you ANet for killing the ONE TRAIT that I really liked—but I'm really not liking the fact that we're going to be stuck with just three lines. And that's to say nothing of the elite line. I'm sure people will come up with new synergies and stuff, but it still feels like we're having less choice rather than more. </grumblegrumble>


Also:

Quote

• The attribute difference between exotic and ascended gear has been changed from 5% to 10%

What the actual fuck. Crafting is mind-numbingly tedious and stupid and an utter waste of time, yet now we're being pushed to do it anyway. 5% is small enough to be negligible. Doubling that to 10% is getting close to not-so-negligible. Seriously pisses me off.

[ChapDev]

 Silvernis, on 16 June 2015 - 08:33 AM, said:

Also:

What the actual fuck. Crafting is mind-numbingly tedious and stupid and an utter waste of time, yet now we're being pushed to do it anyway. 5% is small enough to be negligible. Doubling that to 10% is getting close to not-so-negligible. Seriously pisses me off.

What if they make it so you can now trade it on the TP?

[Sorrows]

 Silvernis, on 16 June 2015 - 08:33 AM, said:

Also:

What the actual fuck. Crafting is mind-numbingly tedious and stupid and an utter waste of time, yet now we're being pushed to do it anyway. 5% is small enough to be negligible. Doubling that to 10% is getting close to not-so-negligible. Seriously pisses me off.

Theres a chance these patch notes could be well put together fakes, though a few (smaller) GW2 fansites got them. But I have a feeling if they are not fakes, this is one of the changes that will be adjusted back (currently it varies (5-7% depending on armors/wepons). Also, remeber baseline attribute on your toon are being buffed and all armors in general are being buffed because of removel from trait line stats. Only negative is if your trait line attributes gave you different than your armor attributes.

[Silvernis]

 ChapDev, on 16 June 2015 - 09:13 AM, said:

What if they make it so you can now trade it on the TP?

They'd be hella expensive, though I admit, I'd prefer to farm gold and just buy what I want rather than jump through hoops to craft stuff.

 Sorrows, on 16 June 2015 - 09:31 AM, said:

Theres a chance these patch notes could be well put together fakes, though a few (smaller) GW2 fansites got them. But I have a feeling if they are not fakes, this is one of the changes that will be adjusted back (currently it varies (5-7% depending on armors/wepons). Also, remeber baseline attribute on your toon are being buffed and all armors in general are being buffed because of removel from trait line stats. Only negative is if your trait line attributes gave you different than your armor attributes.

If they increase the difference from ~5% to 10%, it won't matter if they also boost all stats across the board—that increased gap between exo and ascended will still be there, and I'll still need to craft ascended stuff to keep up.

[Sorrows]

Yeah I agree. Its a pretty negative change for WvWers and PvPers (lack of availability / money / mats). Thats why I think they will shift it back. In PvE though, most of the time exotic power caps you when down scaled anyways, some places exotic was actually better than ascended because of downscaling effects. If those notes are true, downscale is getting nerfed and upscale is getting buffed. So how that change non-80 ascended will be interesting.


Apologize. I'm on my phone typing.

[Azure]

 Slein Jinn, on 16 June 2015 - 06:39 AM, said:

The doom and gloom here is absurdly over-the-top.  Consume Conditions is still going to be the go-to heal for Necromancers.  The cooldown increase is probably unwarranted and may need to be re-tuned, but we'll have to wait and see how it plays out along side the really powerful changes they've made to the Blood Magic tree.  Plague will still be an incredibly strong defensive cooldown.  Spectral Walk will still basically do everything it did before except for let you jump off of ridiculously tall things without dying.  Necromancers are, on the whole, getting buffed.  There are a ton of powerful changes throughout the revamped Necromancer traits, addressing a lot of the class's key weaknesses.  We'll have to wait and see how exactly those buffs play out in comparison to the buffs some of the other classes are getting--remember, this patch is basically the Heart of Thorns open beta as far as balance is concerned--but there is absolutely no justification for this "sky is falling" crap about Necromancers.  

The one thing you seem to not be angry about is the one thing in these changes that's actually a significantly important nerf.  Moving Terror to Master makes it compete with Path of Corruption, which is a more important trait and will generally be taken over it.  None of the Grandmaster traits in Curses are as valuable as either Terror or Path of Corruption.

I realize that the necro was buffed, and quite a lot, but the fact that several skills at least appear to have been nerfed seems to have taken the fun out of having several things about necro buffed. The reason that I didn't really mention PoC was because I never use it. I actually took banshee's wail in the master slot in curses, and I am absolutely terrible with landing Dark Path. I also find it amusing that the necro community was not wanting LC to compete with terror, and now that terror is a master again, they want it a grandmaster again. Now that a day has passed maybe I can go back to a more neutral view, but I still think that the skills that were not corruptions before need to be buffed to make up for their lack of special rewards to make them fit the corruption mold better. On another note, how did all of the other classes fare in regards to nerfs and buffs? I read most of the other classes changes, but because I don't have their trait lines memorized or anything, I am not sure what has been buffed besides warriors who like yelling and setting longbow fires.

[UltraEM]

Flamethrower's gonna get nerfed it looks like since Juggernaut won't give extra toughness anymore added to the fact that both and Fireforged Trigger AND Deadly Mixture are gone. My PvE Engineer is crying. I wanted to burn dem Mordrems

Also, now that Mortar is a kit, does this mean I can plop it out whenever I want with no cooldown? >

[Aduah]

 Silvernis, on 16 June 2015 - 08:33 AM, said:

And now I'm nervous again. The revised traits look mostly OK—with the exception of speedy kits, because I want to have my cake and eat it too and I wanna go fast and screw you ANet for killing the ONE TRAIT that I really liked—but I'm really not liking the fact that we're going to be stuck with just three lines. And that's to say nothing of the elite line. I'm sure people will come up with new synergies and stuff, but it still feels like we're having less choice rather than more. </grumblegrumble>

All these changes are full of a whole lot of nope. This might have to be where me and GW2 part ways. My build will officially be completely fucked. Slower, less range, less power. Choices between things that I shouldn't have to make. Poor Lucent made the mistake of PMing me in game and I ranted at him. I wont do the same to you folks.

I tried to stay positive until it all actually happens by not looking at the hype, or the changes, but I can't any more. Maybe I'll start playing Maal or Lahrkk instead of Fraan. At least I don't really know how to play necro or Mesmer, so won't be as disappointed at the changes.

[Silvernis]

 Aduah, on 16 June 2015 - 02:05 PM, said:

Choices between things that I shouldn't have to make.

I think this is pretty much what it comes down to. I'm trying not to worry too much until I actually have a chance to mess around with the new stuff, but I can't shake the nagging worry that the new trait set-up is going to force me to (as you say) make choices I shouldn't have to make. My engineer is a jack-of-all-trades, and I like that, and I'm concerned that I'm going to lose some (a lot?) of that versatility.

I dunno. Maybe I'm panicking over nothing, and the new system will be fine, but we'll have to see.

[zen]

Mesmers will be hilariously OP 1v1 / roaming now. Shatter has always been one of the best builds, but it's held back by lack of any sustain or condi clear without giving up a slot skill. It looks to me like shatter will now potentially have sustain options similar to ele or medi guard (small heals in your rotations), lots of condi clear, and very large amounts of reflection. All that on top of what mesmers already had with misdirection from illusions, stealth, and teleports, and incredible burst compression from attack skills + phantasm strikes + shatters all hitting in a small window with the right timing and positioning.

Don't get me wrong, I think all classes should be more bound to their profession mechanics, but this just looks way over the top. It seems like we are now the beta testers for HoT....

[Aduah]

 Silvernis, on 16 June 2015 - 02:41 PM, said:

I think this is pretty much what it comes down to. I'm trying not to worry too much until I actually have a chance to mess around with the new stuff, but I can't shake the nagging worry that the new trait set-up is going to force me to (as you say) make choices I shouldn't have to make. My engineer is a jack-of-all-trades, and I like that, and I'm concerned that I'm going to lose some (a lot?) of that versatility.

I dunno. Maybe I'm panicking over nothing, and the new system will be fine, but we'll have to see.

Minor:

• Evasive Powder Keg: Create a bomb when you dodge.
  
• Steel-Packed Powder: Your explosions cause 5s of vulnerability.
  
• Explosive Powder: Explosions deal 10% more damage. Your turrets explode, dealing damage and knocking back nearby foes when destroyed

I didn't have to choose between evasive powder keg and explosive powder before. There is no trait for increase bomb radius, and it doesn't sound like it baseline. Rifled barrels is gone too, so that reduces my pistol range. Incendiary Powder is now a GM trait and they moved to Firearms from Explosives. Speedy kits is now 'streamlined kits' (i think) and is a master trait, that is less effective than speedy kits was. 3 traitlines means I cant get a vigor boost, so I can't dodge as much. Might not be a bit deal if Im soloing camps against NPCs, but against real people this is going to be a pain in the ass.

[Silvernis]

 Aduah, on 16 June 2015 - 03:26 PM, said:

Minor:

• Evasive Powder Keg: Create a bomb when you dodge.
  
• Steel-Packed Powder: Your explosions cause 5s of vulnerability.
  
• Explosive Powder: Explosions deal 10% more damage. Your turrets explode, dealing damage and knocking back nearby foes when destroyed

I didn't have to choose between evasive powder keg and explosive powder before.

Aren't the minor traits included by default, though, so you'd get all three of these automatically if you take the line? Or am I missing something?

Quote

There is no trait for increase bomb radius, and it doesn't sound like it baseline. Rifled barrels is gone too, so that reduces my pistol range. Incendiary Powder is now a GM trait and they moved to Firearms from Explosives. Speedy kits is now 'streamlined kits' (i think) and is a master trait, that is less effective than speedy kits was. 3 traitlines means I cant get a vigor boost, so I can't dodge as much. Might not be a bit deal if Im soloing camps against NPCs, but against real people this is going to be a pain in the ass.

No rifled barrels? That's gonna hurt—pistol has underwhelming range even with that trait slotted. And streamlined kits...that's a cruel joke. I guess I'll have to run mech legs or whatever instead.

Le sigh. At least my ele will apparently emerge unscathed from this nonsense. (Edit: Actually, looking through it again, my ele might be in a very happy place indeed. So there's that.)

[Slein Jinn]

 Aduah, on 16 June 2015 - 03:26 PM, said:

Minor:

• Evasive Powder Keg: Create a bomb when you dodge.
  
• Steel-Packed Powder: Your explosions cause 5s of vulnerability.
  
• Explosive Powder: Explosions deal 10% more damage. Your turrets explode, dealing damage and knocking back nearby foes when destroyed

I didn't have to choose between evasive powder keg and explosive powder before.

You do realise you get all three minors when you slot a trait line...

Quote

There is no trait for increase bomb radius, and it doesn't sound like it baseline. Rifled barrels is gone too, so that reduces my pistol range.

Both baseline.  

Quote

Incendiary Powder is now a GM trait and they moved to Firearms from Explosives.

With quite a lot of additional functionality.  

Quote

Speedy kits is now 'streamlined kits' (i think) and is a master trait, that is less effective than speedy kits was.

With quite a lot of additional functionality.  

Quote

3 traitlines means I cant get a vigor boost, so I can't dodge as much. Might not be a bit deal if Im soloing camps against NPCs, but against real people this is going to be a pain in the ass.

You can have permanent passive vigour for a grandmaster in Tools.  

There are a few really troubling things to whinge about.  There are a couple of core gameplay concepts that really are being seriously disrupted, like randomising the boon/condition conversion priorities.  But the people crying about how nerfed their builds are are basically all just being ignorant babies.  Every single profession is getting stronger.  Every single profession is getting a bunch of strong new toys to play with.  Every single profession is having some of it's biggest deficiencies addressed.  Maybe one or two professions will end up "nerfed" in a purely relativistic sense in terms of not being as buffed as everyone else, but it is way too early to tell before we get the chance to playtest this stuff.  Engineers are going to be in a dramatically better place after these changes.  

I've been pretty straightforward about preferring to not to have any major changes, but we've known these sort of changes were coming for a while now--if you haven't made your peace with that by now, I don't know what to tell you--and they seem to have done a really good job with them for the most part.  Yeah, like I've said many times, this is basically going to be GW3, and I'd personally prefer to keep playing GW2 simply because maturity is important for a competitive game, but GW3 seems to shaping up pretty nicely so far.  There certainly isn't another game on the market right now that has more to offer.

[Silvernis]

 Slein Jinn, on 16 June 2015 - 03:54 PM, said:

With quite a lot of additional functionality.

Fair points—and thanks for reminding me about the baseline additions; I had indeed forgotten some of those—but I do have to completely disagree about streamlined kits. A random spell every 20 seconds does not sound like "quite a lot of additional functionality" no matter how you slice it, especially when it means giving up perma-swiftness.

And yes, I realize I'm clinging to a trait that was frankly OP to begin with, but dammit, I liked speedy kits just the way it was.

[Slein Jinn]

 Silvernis, on 16 June 2015 - 03:59 PM, said:

Fair points—and thanks for reminding me about the baseline additions; I had indeed forgotten some of those—but I do have to completely disagree about streamlined kits. A random spell every 20 seconds does not sound like "quite a lot of additional functionality" no matter how you slice it, especially when it means giving up perma-swiftness.

And yes, I realize I'm clinging to a trait that was frankly OP to begin with, but dammit, I liked speedy kits just the way it was.

http://wiki.guildwar.../Kit_Refinement
It isn't random.  It's tied to the kit.  (Mortar Kit is slated to get THIS at the moment.)  Some of them are quite strong.

[Aduah]

 Slein Jinn, on 16 June 2015 - 03:54 PM, said:

You do realise you get all three minors when you slot a trait line...

No, I didn't realize this. From the screen shots i've seen it looked like there were 1 of 3 traits you choose at every level. If you get them all, then I am significantly less worried and feel better. But am not confused on exactly what it was that they were showing in those screen shots. They don't talk about baseline changes in that post. So I was unaware. All they said was changes to grenades. They didn't mention any other traits. So if someone hasn't been keeping up on every single scrap of news that ANet been leading us around on for month, then the information is extremely misleading.

Quote

You can have permanent passive vigour for a grandmaster in Tools.

Yes but my understanding is, just like now, you can't take everything to GM. So, no, unless I want to sacrifice dmg, its not going to do me any good.

Quote

There are a couple of core gameplay concepts that really are being seriously disrupted, like randomising the boon/condition conversion priorities.

But thats the thing, Isn't it. People are concerned about things that matter to them. Conditions to boons dont matter to me, So frankly my dear, I don't give a shit. It doesn't mean that it isn't a valid concern. But its not a valid concern to everyone.

 Silvernis, on 16 June 2015 - 03:59 PM, said:

And yes, I realize I'm clinging to a trait that was frankly OP to begin with, but dammit, I liked speedy kits just the way it was.

Me too.

[Silvernis]

 Slein Jinn, on 16 June 2015 - 04:09 PM, said:

http://wiki.guildwar.../Kit_Refinement
It isn't random.  It's tied to the kit.  (Mortar Kit is slated to get THIS at the moment.)  Some of them are quite strong.

I stand corrected. That being said...meh. I mean, it's not bad, and I can certainly see it being strong if used carefully in certain situations, but I still don't think it's anywhere near worth losing perma-swiftness, especially since it's on a global CD.

[Sorrows]

 Aduah, on 16 June 2015 - 05:03 PM, said:

No, I didn't realize this. From the screen shots i've seen it looked like there were 1 of 3 traits you choose at every level. If you get them all, then I am significantly less worried and feel better. But am not confused on exactly what it was that they were showing in those screen shots. They don't talk about baseline changes in that post. So I was unaware. All they said was changes to grenades. They didn't mention any other traits. So if someone hasn't been keeping up on every single scrap of news that ANet been leading us around on for month, then the information is extremely misleading.



Yes but my understanding is, just like now, you can't take everything to GM. So, no, unless I want to sacrifice dmg, its not going to do me any good.

For Clarification:

You get all 3 minors in the 3 trait lines you pick.

You pick 1 each of the 3 adept, master, and grandmaster traits. So, you get 3 minors + 1 adept + 1 master + 1 grandmaster for the 3 trait lines you picked.

You get 3 full trait lines now, meaning 6/6/6/0/0 in the current system.

You can't spread them out like 2/4/6/2/0  anymore, you're locked into 3.

Example build calculators: Dulfy's ( Click the arrow on the left to swap out a trait line), IntotheMist (skill changes are not implemented yet)