72 replies to this topic

[matthen]

Dueling Grav in the mists: Good opportunity to practice Moa rotations. FACT.

[matthen]

Grav, on 17 July 2015 - 04:23 PM, said:

I often find myself using Torch 4 in a similar way, for the cover while recharging a mantra.

I used sword/torch when I first started mantras for that very reason. Torch 4 isn't up nearly as often as you like... while staff 2 pretty much is. However, I am happy you are having some luck with it.

[Blackthorn]

Wow, thanks for all the opinions, guys. You've piqued my interest in a few different weapons sets. I'll try them out and hopefully report back.

[Silvernis]

I can't believe I'm annoyed by a mesmer nerf, but this is kinda irritating:

Quote

Mantras: Fixed a bug that caused mantras to begin recharging as soon as the preparation skill was complete instead of when the last charge was expended.

Bug or not, that was a massive QoL improvement, and I'll be sad to see it go. Mantras already punish the user with very long, easily-interrupted charge times, so shifting the CD to start after charging rather than after last cast seemed like a mostly fair way of making them less cumbersome.

[Liric]

They nerfed everything BUT the ridiculous stealth durations. Wow. Wow.

[KaiX]

The only thing I really have to say about mesmer post patch is that it just does too much for very little risk on the players part.  Interrupt shatter pre patch was a thing and it was annoying but thanks to Power Block(?) and whatever the hell trait it is that makes dazes a 100% guaranteed stun it is just down right awful to fight against.

Aside from my bitching and moaning, actually playing mesmer has become kind of interesting again.  I've tried a lot of the builds listed here to varying success and some of my own making.  The most intriguing one was a gs+s/t build that used Imagined Burden+Shattered Strength to give me ludicrous amounts of might for shatter combos.  Although I did find myself losing to the "ShatterLock" mesmer build quite a bit.  The other one I played around with was a GS/Staff build that took heal/daze/damage mantra and blink.  Was fun to mess around with, but definitely not anywhere near optimal.

The general problem I have with mesmer lies with one mechanic.  An instant cast stun that can be used 2 times(3 if traited) is more than a little broken.

[Grav]

Damn, they really nerfed that build, didn't they?

Welp, I'm glad I took screenshots of the few times I was top scorer in PvP when I did.

[Blackthorn]

ANet's priorities - (your favorite facepalm meme here)

We did some experimenting with PU last night - three of us were able stay perma-stealthed in Langor and recap it as soon as RI wore off last night; four of us were able to do the same on inner HoD Bay.The Presitge and Mass Invis have tells, obviously, but we were able to build up enough stealth that we didn't have to use any skills for over a minute (one minute and five seconds of stealth was the longest I think I saw last night) if we needed to change position.

Nerf the mantra bads, though. It'll be interesting to see if the skill ceiling on the mantra builds has been raised to an extent that it encourages more people to roll PU.

[Silvernis]

Blackthorn, on 28 July 2015 - 05:42 PM, said:

Nerf the mantra bads, though. It'll be interesting to see if the skill ceiling on the mantra builds has been raised to an extent that it encourages more people to roll PU.

With the exception of mass invis, I'm stubbornly opposed to running stealth on my mes, and I'm also stubbornly determined to stick with my mantra set-up. I guess I'll just have to keep being bad.


Also, I would love to sit in on whatever meetings ANet has to discuss balance, nerfs/buffs, etc. I expect it would be either illuminating or horrifying.

[KaiX]

Silvernis, on 28 July 2015 - 06:17 PM, said:

Also, I would love to sit in on whatever meetings ANet has to discuss balance, nerfs/buffs, etc. I expect it would be either illuminating or horrifying.

I expect they go something like this.
Playtester:  "So, I can't one shot things on my mesmer anymore, what do?"
Mesmer Dev:  "Let's make the class retardedly easy to play, and do massive damage!  Because everyone likes more damage right?"
Everyone:  "YEAH!"
Jenkins:  "But sir shouldn't we actually test this before we release it?  A 100% chance to stun that can be casted three times and the ability to do 20k bursts from stealth seems a little too broken."
Lead Game Dev:  "You're fired Jenkins."
Jenkins:  "But..but..why?"
Lead Game Dev:  "You used logic.  Oh and we must make thieves use more conditions, because everyone loves conditions!"

*facepalm*

[matthen]

I ran the mantras (heal +1 more) prior to the recharge bug. Although I didn't know it was a bug, I thought that the change to the recharge mechanic made mantra of distraction way too easy to use, and way too powerful in combination with the stun trait.

Personally, I will continue to use mantras. I think that Mesmer is still significantly buffed compared to before the 6/23 patch... and, it is still a strong class.

The PU stealth duration is currently lame in WvW. I hope they look at that next.

[Liric]

The more mesmers I see and fight, the more I'm convinced they LOWERED the skill cap of this class across the board, when their goal was apparently to raise it?

I get the distinct feel that many people are relying on the huge surprise burst to end things and have absolutely no idea what to do if it fails - or worse, if they are caught by surprise.

[Biff Rangoon]

The skill floor is definitely low. It's a relatively easy class to pick up and be effective. There's a lot of room to grow in the class from there too.

[Blackthorn]

Liric, on 29 July 2015 - 09:16 AM, said:

The more mesmers I see and fight, the more I'm convinced they LOWERED the skill cap of this class across the board, when their goal was apparently to raise it?

Where'd you get that idea from? Somewhere on this forum is the thread for when all the changes were announced (before actually being implemented in game on June 23) - we knew then that mesmer was going to be the new master-class for roaming because the changes were going to be so strong. And, we probably underestimated how strong they would turn out to be (as did ANet, judging by yesterday's patch). So, whatever their goal was, it definitely was not to make mesmer some kind high-skill class for "elite" players. Rather, the opposite seems more likely; that they wanted to make the class (and maybe shatter mesmer specifically) more readily accessible to a larger group of players. And they succeeded brilliantly; now just about anyone can be an effective mesmer. Bleh.

[matthen]

I recall reading something along the lines of what Liric just stated. I also agree with Blackthorn... Anet took a class that took skill to play, and turned it into something that troglodyte button mashers could appear competent at.

That said, the skill ceiling is still quite high.

[Liric]

I'd read or heard Anet saying it at some point. Can't be bothered to dig up the quote right now because we all know that what they say and actually succeed in doing are often wildly different things...

I think the most annoying part about their horrible way of "balancing" this game is that patches take so long to adjust anything at all.

[Blackthorn]

Wow. I wonder if that was said before or after they decided what the changes would be. I just can't imagine anyone who has been around this game for any length of time looking at those changes and not seeing how ridiculously strong the class could be with pretty minimal effort.

But, I'll third the notion that the skill ceiling can still be quite high, and namely for the reason that someone (Matthen, I think) pointed out somewhere on this board - interrupts. Someone who can use them effectively (as opposed to just mindlessly spamming Power Lock) can take on most anything. It's even strong against the PU bads.

matthen, on 29 July 2015 - 06:53 PM, said:

Anet took a class that took skill to play, and turned it into something that troglodyte button mashers could appear competent at.

Being a little hard on Biff, no?

[matthen]

Blackthorn, on 29 July 2015 - 07:49 PM, said:

Being a little hard on Biff, no?

I would never insult Biff by saying such things to his face.

[Biff Rangoon]

Blackthorn, on 29 July 2015 - 07:49 PM, said:

I just can't imagine anyone who has been around this game for any length of time looking at those changes and not seeing how ridiculously strong the class could be with pretty minimal effort.

Lol, I guess you don't spend much time reading the mesmer subforum then. There's still a common belief among many of the "mesmer till I die" crowd that the class is one of the hardest to pick up.

Blackthorn, on 29 July 2015 - 07:49 PM, said:

[in response to matthen's comment]

Being a little hard on Biff, no?

Lol, no. I'm a terribad troglodyte button masher on the mesmer... and I still win most of the time.

[Grav]

Well tonight I killed my first thief post-nerf, and then with half my skills still on cooldown, managed to kill an ele as well.  So it seems I'm going to manage. \o/

Which sigils are you guys using?  I like Energy on both weaponsets even without Deceptive Evasion as more dodging = more invuln, and for synergy with Mental Defense (summon Defender on successful block/dodge).  Metabattle suggests Fire, Air and Doom.  I don't really see the point in Doom as mantra shatter isn't a condi build, unless it's intended more as a cover condition?  Fire/Air maybe, but I was hoping for something with a little more direct synergy.  I tried Paralyzation, hardly seemed worth it, in fact I wasn't even sure it stacked with Confounding Suggestions at all.  I was wondering about Impact, Generosity, Hydromancy or Incapacitation?