120 replies to this topic

[Ehmry Bay Bay]

Aduah, on 17 June 2015 - 12:08 AM, said:

I honestly think someone should post on the official forums in protest. I'm sure a lot of people would agree. I get they need money to keep the servers up and stuff and keep it free. But this is so dumb and close to extortion. At least you can keep playing without buying the expansion, so its not exactly extortion. BUT UGH!

Oh, there have been quite a few threads.

Anyone know what happens if you don't get HoT? Will you be excluded from the new WvW map, the new PvP map, and the guild halls? If so, what would that do to the populations of those game modes? If not, then $50 for a new class and a new map?

[Aduah]

Ehmry Bay Bay, on 17 June 2015 - 12:28 AM, said:

Oh, there have been quite a few threads.

Anyone know what happens if you don't get HoT? Will you be excluded from the new WvW map, the new PvP map, and the guild halls? If so, what would that do to the populations of those game modes? If not, then $50 for a new class and a new map?

I dont think the can exclude anyone from the WvW maps, because its a core change to the way things already work. I'd assume the same for PvP, but I dont know that for sure.

But thats why I said I dont think the new content is worth 50 bucks. For a map, a class (no character slot) and guild hall and masteries? Its just not enough to warrant it. Its just not.

People are making the arguement, 'well you'd pay way more if you had to pay subs'. To that I say... No, I wouldnt. I wouldn't fuckin play if i had to pay subs. There isn't any game I like enough to pay subs, unless they subs were like 5 bucks and it was a really good game. Other wise I wouldn't because I'm Cheap.

Sorry, I'm worked up. I'm done with the forums and social media tonight.

[Poe]

Pretty sure its understandable Fraani. Personally I will give it a week and see how it goes. People are getting up in arms about it on the official forums and reddit. Really turbulent at the moment and who knows how Anet will handle all of the reactions and whatnot.

Additionally, I heard there won't be just a single map, but anywhere between 5-10 with that three layers of verticality/biomes but that is just a rumor and I have no sources for it so take it with a grain of salt.

Oh, also Diego - its still $50 for us who bought the game years ago :|

And another edit - would also be nice IF WE HAD A FREAKING RELEASE PERIOD FOR HoT.

[UltraEM]

That's a terrible shame. They bundle in GW2 base for new players, which is essentially useless for old players (you don't get a separate serial code for it, so no alt account). I want to clarify that my point isn't the pricing. $50 is fine for an expansion, but ArenaNet's disgusting handling of the pre-orders/marketing is my main complaint. So, it's $50. Fine, but if you are a veteran player, you are not getting your money's worth compared to new players (see the $110 vs $50 in my other post). The price is the same, but if you've already given ArenaNet your money before, you'll be getting less.

What ANet should've done is release it for $50 but veteran players get 2-3 character slots instead, while the new players will get their base game (which is 5 character slots, since they're new). If that were the case, a lot of people would be satisfied as it wouldn't be blatant unfair treatment of loyal consumers like the current model. Hell, I may actually break my pre-order boycott if this were the model.

But hey, who knows, maybe ANet will turn around and say "HAHA guys that base GW2 that's included in the game will give you the 5 character slots that are generally included in purchasing GW2," but that's very unlikely considering how shady their marketing has been, basically bait-and-switch, in addition to the character slots included in the digital deluxe and ultimate edition preorders.

[Omni Cide]

Don't pre-order for now.  If the pre-order sale numbers aren't looking so good and people keep raising a stink about this, then I bet they'll cave in and sweeten the deal in some way (i.e. 1+ extra character slots at least).

[Slein Jinn]

UltraEM, on 17 June 2015 - 12:27 AM, said:

So, they'll offer an upgrade the game for people who bought it for $40 recently, but not offer a paid upgrade-only option for those of us who bought it for $60+ 3 years ago?

You paid $60 to play the game for three years.  Seems like pretty gods damned good value-for-money to me.  Even if you're really really really casual and only play an average of 30 minutes per day, you got awesome entertainment for $0.11 per hour.  You don't have a subscription, and ANet has pretty much the most responsible FTP model the industry has ever seen.  And you're losing your shit over a $50 expansion?  If the expansion isn't worth it to you, don't buy it, but don't try to make a big fuss and try to pretend it's a bad value.  ANet needs to have income if you're going to keep getting support for the game you enjoy.  

Shit gets cheaper over time.  People who buy older games always get a "better deal" than people who buy them brand new.  It's life.  Get over it.  This QQ is about as ridiculous as it would have been to demand a $50 rebate because you bought the game at release when they did their $10 sale around PAX.  

It's really common for MMO's to bundle the base game and even previous expansions in with new expansion releases for free.  I bought seventeen expansions for EQ1.  The seventeenth expansion included the base game and the previous sixteen expansions.  (And the sixteenth included the previous fifteen, and so on.)  Am I entitled to some kind $800 rebate for having paid for all that content when it was new?  No, of course not, my money bought me access to current content when it was current.  If MMO's didn't do this, the barrier-to-entry for new players would reach ridiculous levels for mature games.

[UltraEM]

Slein Jinn, on 17 June 2015 - 01:20 AM, said:

You paid $60 to play the game for three years.  Seems like pretty gods damned good value-for-money to me.  

I'm not trying to say that it wasn't worth it. It was. I'm just pointing out the bait-and-switch tactics used in the GW2 HoT FAQ. When someone called them out for it, they offered refunds for people who bought it recently to save face.

That said, my quoted post is erroneous when looking back, as they are not offering upgrades, but rather a refund and exchange for the $50 GW2 + HoT preorder. I thought they were offering an upgrade to HoT to these people and was wondering why they wouldn't offer an upgrade to older players for a price as well. But I was wrong, sorry about that.

I reiterate, my problem is not the price. My problem is that everyone pays the same price but not everyone is getting the same value, in addition to the shady bait-and-switch FAQ that led people to buy the base game, followed by ANet only editing the FAQ after the pre-order specifics were announced.

[Blackthorn]

Poe, on 17 June 2015 - 12:23 AM, said:

Blackthorn - Where else will you hold Lucent for his nightly BDSM session? I mean you already have him in a blindfold and mouth cover, unless home instances/WvW are enough. (ilulucentdontkillmeiamjustmessingwithyou)

Lucent is quite the exhibitionist actually, and prefers to use Lion's Arch as his personal ERP room. Can't fault him since we make a few gold in tips every night.

Actually, I think Lucent had an identity crisis when he saw that his ele looked basically the same as one of Lucid's warriors. He then went with a fake-Zeshar look, which was confusing because I wasn't sure which one not to res when they downed. Now apparently he's gone for a fake-me look, which I'm okay with, since as a mesmer, I'm used to seeing a lot of fake Blackthorns around. Hopefully he hits a bit harder than my clones, though.

[Slein Jinn]

UltraEM, on 17 June 2015 - 01:27 AM, said:

I'm not trying to say that it wasn't worth it. It was. I'm just pointing out the bait-and-switch tactics used in the GW2 HoT FAQ, and how when someone called them out for it, they offered refunds for people who bought it recently to save face.

I reiterate, my problem is not the price. My problem is that everyone pays the same price but not everyone is getting the same value.

Everyone's getting the same value as far as matters.  People who buy it now and get the base game for the first time now don't retroactively get the three years of fun you had.  Like I said, bundling base games and previous expansions with new expansion releases is standard practise in the gaming industry that's been going on for twenty years or more.  If they didn't bundle it, new players would have to spend more than you do to access the next three years (or however long) of content.  The barrier to entry for new players would be prohibitive.  

Yeah, there was evidently a problem with the way a piece of information was presented on the FAQ.  They're fixing it for the people who were affected by that.  You weren't even one of the people who were affected by that.  So why are you still bitching about this?

[UltraEM]

Because I think there's something wrong with it. I know it's not like complaining can change it, but it's just nice to let off steam. I'm not against the bundling, though; I agree that it should be easy for new players to get in. I just don't feel like new and old players aren't getting the same value for the $50, as I don't believe I can put a monetary value on the fun that I had; of course this is debatable, but it's just my personal view on the matter.

[Sanji]

Ehmry Bay Bay, on 17 June 2015 - 12:28 AM, said:

Oh, there have been quite a few threads.

Anyone know what happens if you don't get HoT? Will you be excluded from the new WvW map, the new PvP map, and the guild halls? If so, what would that do to the populations of those game modes? If not, then $50 for a new class and a new map?

They said during one interview a little while back that if you dont get HoT you still get the wvw maps but you might not get all the gimmicks like map so am figuring youll have the map but not have access to all the bonus and sieges and other stuff they implement...thats my guess about it, dont remember them going in great detail about it.

[Sanji]

I dont see why they just cant make it like a DLC or in Skyrim....for Dawnguard...separate purchase...
I disagree to some pt Slein since on Steam after I bought the initial skyrim (taking it as my example), you had all the diff. options separate or together to get it.

So why can HoT but a separate upload...is integrating the interface or whatnot more difficult.

I dont pre-purchase nothing and I got Witcher 3 + Assassing Creed blac Flag free a few days after release as a special...now already 1 month  in some place have it with 10% discount.

So its defininte am sitting on it until release date is confirmed and decided closer to it coming out.

I dont agree with one type method since its called an "expansion".

Am not talking about price per value but that alot of std expansion today can be uploaded separately or have a few buying choices, still to early...

Pre-orders before event confirming a tentative release date...

[Sorrows]

Not going to lie, I went ahead and preordered because I see no issue with the price.

• I don't see the need for having a character slot in the base version. Mainly want character slots to go on sale so I can buy doubles of all my current classes
  
• I just got 4k gems, which is 1.6k more than I ever bought in my first 2.75 years of playing. I've spent a grand total of 30$ after release, meaning 90$ over 2.75 years of gameplay (4813 hours gametime).
  
• I payed 60$ upfront to get beta weekend accesses for the core game, so people saying (not you all) that pre purchase isn't worth it for guaranteed betas are just wrong.
  
• Anet is really good with refunds if they change something. Meaning if they give in to the rage and they aren't getting the pre-purchase sales they want, most likely any changes they make to pricing will be refunded or applied to people already purchased
  
• I'm a PvE scrub and feel like HoT is enough for an expansion. Get the new Living Stories, new masteries, new precursors (hate the current ones, except my useless shield), huge new maps (though there are going to be fewer), guild halls.
  
• I want to support Arenanet.

Do I think it's wrong of Arenanet to update their FAQ concerning the base game + expansion seperate, yes I do.

[Silvernis]

Slein Jinn, on 17 June 2015 - 01:20 AM, said:

You paid $60 to play the game for three years.  Seems like pretty gods damned good value-for-money to me.  Even if you're really really really casual and only play an average of 30 minutes per day, you got awesome entertainment for $0.11 per hour.  You don't have a subscription, and ANet has pretty much the most responsible FTP model the industry has ever seen.  And you're losing your shit over a $50 expansion?  If the expansion isn't worth it to you, don't buy it, but try to make a big fuss and try to pretend it's a bad value.  ANet needs to have income if you're going to keep getting support for the game you enjoy.

$60 for the base game three years ago is/was fine. ANet getting income is fine. The issue is the cost-to-content ratio, so to speak. We're paying almost as much for an expansion as we did for the base game. Is the expansion going to come with almost as much new content as the base game did? If not—and I'm guessing it won't—then $50 seems disproportionately high.

Also, it doesn't even come with a single extra character slot. That is complete and utter BS.

[Slein Jinn]

Sorrows, on 17 June 2015 - 07:05 AM, said:

Not going to lie, I went ahead and preordered because I see no issue with the price.

• I don't see the need for having a character slot in the base version. Mainly want character slots to go on sale so I can buy doubles of all my current classes
  
• I just got 4k gems, which is 1.6k more than I ever bought in my first 2.75 years of playing. I've spent a grand total of 30$ after release, meaning 90$ over 2.75 years of gameplay (4813 hours gametime).
  
• I payed 60$ upfront to get beta weekend accesses for the core game, so people saying (not you all) that pre purchase isn't worth it for guaranteed betas are just wrong.
  
• Anet is really good with refunds if they change something. Meaning if they give in to the rage and they aren't getting the pre-purchase sales they want, most likely any changes they make to pricing will be refunded or applied to people already purchased
  
• I'm a PvE scrub and feel like HoT is enough for an expansion. Get the new Living Stories, new masteries, new precursors (hate the current ones, except my useless shield), huge new maps (though there are going to be fewer), guild halls.
  
• I want to support Arenanet.

Do I think it's wrong of Arenanet to update their FAQ concerning the base game + expansion seperate, yes I do.

Finally a voice of reason.

[Wicked]

So I have 3 accounts, 2 of which I only play wvw in now.  What happens if I don't buy it at all? They should keep everything the way it is (including wvw) for those that choose not to upgrade or only upgrade 1 account.

[Sorrows]

WvW and PvP will be in the current base . You may not have the ability to build all this fancy guild hall WvW stuff they showed yesterday (no details outside of CoJo's interview, should come out soon). I have 2 alternate accounts (1 FA and 1 EU) I have no intention of buying the expansion for them, nor do I feel like I need to.

If Arenanet was to give in to current pressure/outrage, some alternatives I think they'll give:

• Everyone who buys pre-purchases gets 400 gems (on top of the 4k for ultimate) if they already have the base game (i.e. not creating an account with the code give, just applying it to a current account), they make character slots 50% for 1 week. That way people can't say they gave current players a chance to get a free character slot for early purchase. ( OR (better situation) 1 time buy after upgrading for a 50% character slot, little harder to put in, but shouldn't be too hard to track. They've done 1 time sale prices before, doesn't limit chance to buy to 1 week.)

• Give everyone who bought it under similar conditions as above, but 800 gems instead of 400. 10$ value, freedom to use it to buy character slot or not. No sale on character slots.

• Cut price 10$, and refund 10$ to already buyers, logistical nightmare probably.

• Quit HoT and start developing GW3 cause Slein really wants every update to be GW3

[UltraEM]

I'm more convinced of the "not-including anything extra" for older players thing now, but I still won't be pre-ordering it (nor any game, ever). I still want just 1 character slot though. Come to think of it, I may have overreacted as it is the middle of Steam Summer Sale and I bought a number of games at really good prices... may have spoiled me a little. Though, I did say that I was fine with the $50 price tag.

[Maksyn]

Keep in mind, people over in WoW paid 60 bucks for Mists of Pandaria and possibly 80 if they wanted a deluxe version. This includes the monthly fee. Also, every Guild Wars 1 expansion was 50.

The only thing that has me hesitant is the missing information on what exactly we're getting. Still have no idea how much PvE content there's going to be. The price could be very justified and it could very well not be. *shrug*

[Silvernis]

I admit, to some extent I'm quibbling over a few dollars; I would've thought $40 was steep-ish but would've paid it without hesitation, while $50 has me crying extortion. That being said, we don't know if we're getting $50 worth of new content—is it one map? Three? Ten? How big are they? Etc.—and, more galling, we don't get a new character slot in the standard version. I'll keep saying it: that's complete and utter BS. If there's a new race/class, an expansion should come with an extra character slot regardless of price level. Like, seriously. That's non-negotiable. You don't talk about revenant revenant revenant for months and then not give people the space to make a fucking revenant.