120 replies to this topic

[Maxxalot]

Slein Jinn, on 18 June 2015 - 01:16 AM, said:

ANet has given you one of the most amazing entertainment bargains in history, and this is the best way of expressing satisfaction.  If you pay, hopefully nothing will change.

I do admit, I prefer Anet's way of doing things over many other companies, but I'd have to disagree on that one. It is no secret that GW2 lacks pretty heavily on the content side of things. Considering how long it has been out, there's really no excuse for the poor amount of flimsy content. Dungeons are stupidly easy and offer little(if any) challenge, most world bosses are just giant zerg-fests(with maybe 1-2 exceptions), and map completion is just an incentive to complete a map and then never visit again. Those are just some of the larger issues. You could write books about how broken and boring the PvE is in this game. WvW(which also has a slough of scathing problems) and the friends I've made are the only things that keep me interested in this game, cause Anet sure hasn't.

And yes, I understand Anet has talked about "new challenging pve content", but we have seen nothing. So, until I am explicitly shown what my money is going towards, I will not be giving it to them. Would you pay $20 for an album even if you didn't know if it was going to have 5 or 15 songs on it, just because it was a band you liked? I sure wouldn't.

[Sanji]

Am waiting until the release date to look back into this, even  tho I think also somewhere ard august and I can play the cost game also since 100$usd for the ultimate right now is about 120$ Can...give or take with taxes and all that nice stuff.

*I waited for witcher and got assassin creed black flag for free one week or so into the release.

[Sorrows]

Arenanet lacks decently on hardcore PvE content, yes. However, overall breadth of content is quite wide. Between small and large scale PvP, PvE, and other groups/genres/etc people make up to play while inside the game there's a lot.

Why should Arenanet cater to "Veteran" players? They've already stated, getting people into the game and playing actively is their #1 goal because that's how they make money. They provide content (Living World, feature packs, other) to keep those people playing. Buying the game is the only commitment you have to paying. It's been shown for 2 years that all content after that is free unless you are not actively playing. In which case you can still grind inside the game to buy it. Gem Store is 100% cosmetic and has no advantages outside of the base game anymore. They've learned from their early gem store debacles (mainly buy these boxes for chance to get a ticket to trade in during this 2 week special event), and only kept it to the BLC keys now.

Buying the expansion gaurentees you at least 2 Living story series, which is a 20-40$ value depending on how you view it (10$ ea from buyer standpoint, 20$ from seller's stand point). And they've already shown that those living stories can give you new maps even if you don't unlock the Living Story section (Southsun + Dry Top + Silverwaste, and all the temporary festival maps / mini games).

The only thing Arenanet does not do too well is support their WvW section of the game, which is what most people here play. And yes this is sad, but a lot of the discrepancies (coverage/numbers/etc) are all based on the players and not on Arenanet. Arenanet doesn't want to tell the players how to play the game. With Guild Halls coming out, perhaps there will be an end to "Fight Tiers" because they can organize it easier in guild halls across all servers. They also announced guild leaderboards and world leaderboards (I think), but other than that we have no information on them. However, if the fight tier falls apart, what happens then? You'll see PPTers, pug zergs, and zerg busting. It may actually be more even across the map, but not immediately. (This is all highly theoretical)

I'll continue this post later, I'm going to be late for work.

[Slein Jinn]

Sorrows, on 18 June 2015 - 07:02 AM, said:

Arenanet lacks decently on hardcore PvE content, yes.

And even there, a pretty strong competitive PvE scene has emerged.  The dungeon speedrunning community is pretty strong in this game, with many devotees.  There are even competitive tournaments with ANet-sponsored prizing.  And these competitions even have multiple categories, with full 5-man speed clears as well as duo- and trio-clearing challenges.  There's plenty of depth and difficulty in that content if you look hard enough for it.  

Sure, that difficulty is mostly manufactured by the players, but that's kind of inevitable with PvE content.  Show me a game developer that claims to be able to keep pace with the consumption of hardcore players, and I'll show you a lying sonofabitch.  Really, at the end of the day, PvE content is basically the same everywhere.  Some content is harder to solve than others, but eventually PvE content is always solved, and after that, the longevity of that content comes from optimisation.  EQ1 had probably the "hardest" PvE content any major MMO release has ever seen, some of it taking months to solve, but even that content was ultimately reduced to "who can clear it the most efficiently".  

Maybe that scene isn't for you--it certainly isn't for me--but that doesn't mean it isn't there.  GW2 is easily the deepest FTP/BTP game I've ever seen.  It's considerably deeper than most subscription games.

[Holden McGroin]

Sorrows, on 17 June 2015 - 04:05 PM, said:

DLC is the gem store in my opinion. The way you phrase DLC makes every expansion ever has been DLC (free or paid). I'm also not paying 15$ to even access this "DLC" after I've bought it. I wasted 3 years of my life on Runescape membership and paid more total than I have on GW2, and I've accomplished alot more on GW2. Better friendships, better community, and alot more than just playing a game. And alot of people offer prepurchase/earlyaccess/etc before a release date. Notable example, Minecraft had a few years of alpha/beta before it went full release. You don't PvE much if you think 3 days will cover everything the expansion has to offer. Just stick with the core game, no one is making you buy it.

Arenanet billed this game as a pay one time to play. No expansions no monthly fee. The reason I call it DLC is due to the fact that they have stated quite a few things about this "expansion"

1. It isn't a stand alone like GW1 expansions that cost $50.
2. Its smaller than the core game.
3. Its a more feature rich expansion than content rich expansion.

Also we are only getting access to the Maguuma Jungle. The Kryta map has 4 zones, Ruins of Orr 3 zones, etc. This means you are looking 3-4 zones at best with maybe a new city....maybe. You are only getting 1 class extra. They've said shit about a new campaign and let's all be honest with each other. The actual "campaign" will most likely be Living Story which has always been free in the core game per their initial stated business model. What's going to be horrendous is the fact you the players can't play the new living story b/c it will most likely be HoT exclusive LOL.

Grav, on 17 June 2015 - 07:07 PM, said:

Regardless of the price, I'm still too pissed off at Anet for {a} refusing to address the WvW population imbalance issue after literally years of looking the other way, and {b} replacing my home BL with a gimmick carnival.

Things can always change between now and release, but as things currently stand, I won't be buying it.

We agree here but it'll never change b/c server xfers = $$$. I agree though and this expansion basically is a big FU to the PvPers/WvWers

Slein Jinn, on 18 June 2015 - 01:16 AM, said:

So $50 for an expansion that will be entertaining for 3-6 months is a bad deal, but $60 for a new console game that keeps you busy for about a week is industry standard...

I think I've figured out what's going on here.  ANet is the parent who has spoilt their children.  Guild Wars 2 was such incredible value, offering not only an amazingly deep game with potentially tens of thousands of hours of gameplay for no subscription fee and a completely non-invasive cash shop, but then on top of that offering tons of free add-ons with actual gameplay content, tons of quality of life additions, lots of toys to play with, etc.  I quite literally don't think I've ever bought anything in my life that has been better value-for-money than Guild Wars 2.  I've played 7200 hours on my main account, meaning I've paid about 0.8 CENTS per hour to this point for high quality entertainment.  And I could probably play the game this long again without a single new patch, to be honest.  

Against any other standard of comparison, this expansion will be a great value.  It's cheaper than stand-alone games that you can finish in a week, with way more longevity than such games have for certain.  Never mind other ways you could spend your entertainment budget, like going out for drinks, going to the cinema, or even paying for a decent cable TV package.  But you guys are so spolit by how the phenomenal value ANet has given you up to this point, that there's no possible way for them to please you.  They've been giving you everything you could ever want for free for years, and now they dare to ask for a relatively small amount of money for something, so you're throwing your toys out of the pram.  

It's ridiculous.  


I bought the $100 version, which effectively costs 350% more for me than for most of you, because I live in a much smaller economy with a much lower cost of living and comparatively lower incomes.  I strongly encourage all of you to do the same, because ANet has given you one of the most amazing entertainment bargains in history, and this is the best way of expressing satisfaction.  If you pay, hopefully nothing will change.

Ok you need to stop right there and let's clear up a few things.

First you need to remember the initial mission of arenanet when advertising GW2. No subs, no expansions, pay 1x to get everything, cash shop for extras/cosmetics only, no pay to win, in game updates for free, etc. You get the idea now?

So this "expansion" has violated their original mission.....but you know what? I'm ok with that if the product warrants my money. Currently and prolly on release the product is NOT worth $50. Look up at my 1st reply to Shadow in this post and you'll understand.

As for the tirade on how we are being whiny, greedy, etc. you have to go back to Anet's ORIGINAL mission and statements. We are actually giving them a pass with being OK with them releasing an expansion. They said they'd never do it....but 99% of the players are OK with it b/c we support the game/company. What we are not OK with is the ripoff that is HoT. There is NOTHING you can rebuttal with to change this argument of mine. The simple fact that THOUSANDS of players have expressed displeasure vs the few that wanna roll over and take it w/out lube tells me I'm right and you are wrong.

p.s. They also said they'd never allow flying in this game but wtf is this glider shit??
p.p.s. The argument about general production games for consoles that are $60 and only take a fraction of the time to complete is null and void. The money spent to bring a AAA title out nowadays FAR exceeds the price of HoT. In the Xbox 360 era games were costing 200 million to make. If HoT had the production value of one of those AAA games the $50 price tag wouldn't even be a question.

Sorrows, on 18 June 2015 - 07:02 AM, said:

Arenanet lacks decently on hardcore PvE content, yes. However, overall breadth of content is quite wide. Between small and large scale PvP, PvE, and other groups/genres/etc people make up to play while inside the game there's a lot.

Why should Arenanet cater to "Veteran" players? They've already stated, getting people into the game and playing actively is their #1 goal because that's how they make money. They provide content (Living World, feature packs, other) to keep those people playing. Buying the game is the only commitment you have to paying. It's been shown for 2 years that all content after that is free unless you are not actively playing. In which case you can still grind inside the game to buy it. Gem Store is 100% cosmetic and has no advantages outside of the base game anymore. They've learned from their early gem store debacles (mainly buy these boxes for chance to get a ticket to trade in during this 2 week special event), and only kept it to the BLC keys now.

Buying the expansion gaurentees you at least 2 Living story series, which is a 20-40$ value depending on how you view it (10$ ea from buyer standpoint, 20$ from seller's stand point). And they've already shown that those living stories can give you new maps even if you don't unlock the Living Story section (Southsun + Dry Top + Silverwaste, and all the temporary festival maps / mini games).

The only thing Arenanet does not do too well is support their WvW section of the game, which is what most people here play. And yes this is sad, but a lot of the discrepancies (coverage/numbers/etc) are all based on the players and not on Arenanet. Arenanet doesn't want to tell the players how to play the game. With Guild Halls coming out, perhaps there will be an end to "Fight Tiers" because they can organize it easier in guild halls across all servers. They also announced guild leaderboards and world leaderboards (I think), but other than that we have no information on them. However, if the fight tier falls apart, what happens then? You'll see PPTers, pug zergs, and zerg busting. It may actually be more even across the map, but not immediately. (This is all highly theoretical)

I'll continue this post later, I'm going to be late for work.

So much wrong in this post that picking it a part does no good.

I will say two things on it

1. GW2 content in PvE pales in comparison to a lot of MMO's....its not even close.
2. HoT isn't worth $50 and is infact only a $30 buy with the core game making the price $50. This infuriates veterans b/c we are paying the same and getting less. You can't argue this point...it is fact.

[Slein Jinn]

You're like one of those teenage girls on a reality TV show.  Daddy bought you a new Mercedes for your sweet sixteen, and you're wailing like a banshee because he told you you're going to have to pay to have it serviced.  

Grow up.  If you don't want to buy HoT, don't buy HoT, but don't try to paint it as ANet some how being "unfair" or fucking you over or something.  This shit is a fucking embarrassment.

[Holden McGroin]

Slein Jinn, on 18 June 2015 - 07:51 AM, said:

You're like one of those teenage girls on a reality TV show.  Daddy bought you a new Mercedes for your sweet sixteen, and you're wailing like a banshee because he told you you're going to have to pay to have it serviced.  

Grow up.  If you don't want to buy HoT, don't buy HoT, but don't try to paint it as ANet some how being "unfair" or fucking you over or something.  This shit is a fucking embarrassment.

The fact you are resorting to personal attacks basically shows everyone where this debate is going.


That being said I will once again reply to you in a civil manner: If you want to spend your hard earned cash and over pay/get ripped off that's on you. If you feel the need to spend a significant portion of your lively hood wrongfully that again is on you.

I on the other hand have zero problem dropping $100 on something that is actually WORTH it. This is called understanding the value of a dollar (or w/e currency you use in your country) Obviously you have not learned this value as evidenced by you shelling out $100 for basically the same thing as 2 new multiplayer maps + gun in CoD.

I thank you for the response and truly hope you get your money's worth in HoT.

[Silvernis]

Maxxalot, on 17 June 2015 - 11:25 PM, said:

Sure, they've shown a few things, but have they really shown enough to justify such a steep price? Because right now, it feels like they're charging $50 for something the size of a few meager feature packs. And yes, I'm aware more content announcements are likely. Although, that doesn't change that they went public with the $50 price BEFORE said announcements. Personally, I believe what they have revealed so far is not even close to being worth $50.

Pretty much this. I could be persuaded that $50 for HoT is fair given the entertainment value of GW2 over the years, the new stuff that will be added to HoT in the future, etc. etc. etc., but it doesn't change the fact that as of right now, we haven't seen that much of what's actually included in the expansion. When GW2 first went up for pre-order, we bought it knowing we were getting a whole MMORPG. With HoT, we really don't know what we're getting. $60 for a full game with 30+ maps, dungeons, WvW, eight classes, LS, etc., vs. $50 for...what, exactly? One map? A couple maps? One class? From a simple numbers perspective, it just seems questionable. I don't mind shelling out $50, but I'd prefer to have a more complete idea of what I'm paying for.

Also: no character slot. I will keep whining about this. Honestly, if it just came with a slot, I'd order it right now despite my misgivings about the price.

[Maxxalot]

Oh man...I wanted a mature discussion on this topic...suppose that was a lot to expect

[Sanji]

Maxxalot, on 18 June 2015 - 08:46 AM, said:

Oh man...I wanted a mature discussion on this topic...suppose that was a lot to expect

But but .... I was very serious....

And yous all forget that we are all getting the new wvw map for free give or take because of this expansion so wherether you buy it or  not you still get to wvw still...with probably just a few gimmicks like cant walk on lava and stuff.

+sidenote:
I can just see Crosy stack on lava its ours...half grp dies what the "hell" guys...sorry Crosy we are all on none upgrades:) rolf

[Ehm C Hammer]

Slein Jinn, on 18 June 2015 - 01:16 AM, said:

So $50 for an expansion that will be entertaining for 3-6 months is a bad deal, but $60 for a new console game that keeps you busy for about a week is industry standard...

actually....yes
i do not care much about industry standard i guess, i wouldn't buy those either.
Money is not a huge issue to me but i still wouldn't pay 12 dollars for a carton of eggs or 25 dollars for a roll of paper towels.
Why? the price simply does not match the value.

[Slein Jinn]

Ehm C Hammer, on 18 June 2015 - 12:13 PM, said:

actually....yes
i do not care much about industry standard i guess, i wouldn't buy those either.
Money is not a huge issue to me but i still wouldn't pay 12 dollars for a carton of eggs or 25 dollars for a roll of paper towels.
Why? the price simply does not match the value.

So what's going to give you more entertainment for your money?  A buy-to-play MMO is basically the most economical form of entertainment that exists.  If GW2 is bad value, then what exactly would be good value?

[Sorrows]

Holden McGroin, on 18 June 2015 - 07:44 AM, said:

Arenanet billed this game as a pay one time to play. No expansions no monthly fee. The reason I call it DLC is due to the fact that they have stated quite a few things about this "expansion"

1. It isn't a stand alone like GW1 expansions that cost $50.
2. Its smaller than the core game.
3. Its a more feature rich expansion than content rich expansion.

Please do tell me where they stated there would be no expansions. Then we'll talk about that. Pretty sure all I've seen from the community for two years was begging for an expansion. They've kept to the no monthly fee promise.

1) The requirement to be classified as an expansion is that you need the base game. GW1 Factions and Nightfall are not expansions. Even Arenanet has stated this:

"Guild Wars Eye of the North, sometimes abbreviated to EotN or GW:EN, is the fourth purchasable installment in the original Guild Wars game. It is intended to tie the Guild Wars storyline with that of Guild Wars 2. Instead of using a campaign format used by Guild Wars Factions and Guild Wars Nightfall, Eye of the North is a traditional expansion on any of the existing campaigns, rather than a standalone game. Players cannot create characters based on the expansion; there is no tutorial area or additional professions.Eye of the North was released on August 31st, 2007."

2) So is Eye of the North and every other expansion for any MMO ever. The core game sets the stage for any content provided after it. They are not labeling HoT as a new core game, they are labeling it as an expansion because that is what it is, they are simply providing the core game because getting new players in increases revenue from the gemstore. That is why I stated Arenanet caters to Active players and not Veterans.

3) You are correct, but that's because like everyone else on this thread has said : They haven't shown us enough. And I 100% agree with it, but from what I have seen both in HoT and the past 2.75 years, I see that it worth the money. Everyone is entitled to their thresholds on whether to buy or not.

Holden McGroin, on 18 June 2015 - 07:44 AM, said:

Also we are only getting access to the Maguuma Jungle. The Kryta map has 4 zones, Ruins of Orr 3 zones, etc. This means you are looking 3-4 zones at best with maybe a new city....maybe. You are only getting 1 class extra. They've said shit about a new campaign and let's all be honest with each other. The actual "campaign" will most likely be Living Story which has always been free in the core game per their initial stated business model. What's going to be horrendous is the fact you the players can't play the new living story b/c it will most likely be HoT exclusive LOL.

They've already stated it's only going to be 5-10 zones, but nearly every zone has 3 layers to it. Hence why they explained the Canopy/ Forest Floor/ and Cave system aspect to it. Arenanet is taking a totally different approach to maps now. Also, they have stated the campaign will be repeatable for each person and you can explore all the branches of the story this time around on one character. That is more than the core offered and they are still trying to fix the core story. Some of us like the story of the game. The Living Story is separate from the personal story believe it or not. It's a continuation to give the perception of a world that is still passing day by day, just in chunks. And it's not "most likely" for HoT players only, it is going to be that way because they have 100% said that. I really think you should read and learn before you talk about stuff.

Holden McGroin, on 18 June 2015 - 07:44 AM, said:

Ok you need to stop right there and let's clear up a few things.

First you need to remember the initial mission of arenanet when advertising GW2. No subs, no expansions, pay 1x to get everything, cash shop for extras/cosmetics only, no pay to win, in game updates for free, etc. You get the idea now?

So this "expansion" has violated their original mission.....but you know what? I'm ok with that if the product warrants my money. Currently and prolly on release the product is NOT worth $50. Look up at my 1st reply to Shadow in this post and you'll understand.

As for the tirade on how we are being whiny, greedy, etc. you have to go back to Anet's ORIGINAL mission and statements. We are actually giving them a pass with being OK with them releasing an expansion. They said they'd never do it....but 99% of the players are OK with it b/c we support the game/company. What we are not OK with is the ripoff that is HoT. There is NOTHING you can rebuttal with to change this argument of mine. The simple fact that THOUSANDS of players have expressed displeasure vs the few that wanna roll over and take it w/out lube tells me I'm right and you are wrong.

p.s. They also said they'd never allow flying in this game but wtf is this glider shit??
p.p.s. The argument about general production games for consoles that are $60 and only take a fraction of the time to complete is null and void. The money spent to bring a AAA title out nowadays FAR exceeds the price of HoT. In the Xbox 360 era games were costing 200 million to make. If HoT had the production value of one of those AAA games the $50 price tag wouldn't even be a question.

Please show me the original statement saying no expansions. They've said countless times that their goal to keep this game going 10-15 years down the road would need expansions.

Holden McGroin, on 18 June 2015 - 07:44 AM, said:

So much wrong in this post that picking it a part does no good.

I will say two things on it

1. GW2 content in PvE pales in comparison to a lot of MMO's....its not even close.
2. HoT isn't worth $50 and is infact only a $30 buy with the core game making the price $50. This infuriates veterans b/c we are paying the same and getting less. You can't argue this point...it is fact.

I really would like to know what is wrong the post, please PM it to me if it is that bad.

1. A lot of MMOs have expansions which make them seem to have more PvE content than was originally offered. GW2 values itself on replayability and appeals the casual gamer. People love the game, but they want harder content that is less casual because they love the game and what it offers. If they hated the game they wouldn't be asking for more.

2. No, they have said the core is free now if you buy HoT. Why? Because they want people accessing the gem shop. So if you want to attack Arenanet on pricing, focus your hate on the gem shop, not the expansion.

Sure it may only have 30$ worth of content in some people's eyes, but in others (like myself and Slein have pointed out), spending fractions of a dollar an hour is well worth our money. I have a job, I graduated from college so I could buy stuff I enjoyed. I enjoy Guild Wars 2. Veterans, tbh, should not feel entitled if they truly enjoy something.


@ Maxx, for this conversation being uncivilized, is it because we're defending a point counter to the vocal majority or is it simply because Slein started mudslinging?

Also to anyone who thinks that my belief that giving core away for free is about the gem store, watch this video. The topic is competitive gaming, but the marketing director of Arenanet on the left says alot about how the game is marketed and why they like competitive players. (if you don't watch the whole thing, watch min 3:45 -> 8) :



Basically:

Competitive Players play the game longer -> Players monetize better the more they play -> Paraphrase: "Playtime = Money... Our business model isn't based on subscription, we sell a box and we have an MTX store. In fact a majority of income since launch has been the MTX store."

[Maxxalot]

Sorrows, on 18 June 2015 - 01:30 PM, said:

@ Maxx, for this conversation being uncivilized, is it because we're defending a point counter to the vocal majority or is it simply because Slein started mudslinging?

Nonono, just the mudslinging from multiple places lol. ACTUALLY NO I MEAN FUCK YOUR OPINION TWAT!

[Sorrows]

Maxxalot, on 18 June 2015 - 01:39 PM, said:

Nonono, just the mudslinging from multiple places lol. ACTUALLY NO I MEAN FUCK YOUR OPINION TWAT!

[Omni Cide]

The price point is not an issue for me.  Therefore arguments focusing on "value per dollar" are not relevant.

For me, the big problem is that for a very long time ANET's GW2 FAQ stated in plain language that you would need to already have the base game to play HoT.  Throughout these many months ANET held several sales for their base game.  Since the FAQ plainly stated you would need the base game to play HoT, many people purchased the game during these sales.  Some, myself included, purchased a few copies of the game to give to RL friends, other new players liked what they saw of the expansion and decided to buy the base game for themselves.

That brings us to the present, where ANET has done an about-face and decided that HoT will include the base game.  Following this announcement they quietly update their FAQ to say that HoT will include the base game.  People notice the change to the FAQ, and there is a huge outcry.  ANET then decides to make some snarky comments about how "this will be the only version of HoT, FYI" (they really can’t be bothered to give enough time to our concerns to write out a full sentence in reply?), and the changes to the FAQ were just an "honest mistake."

To make things worse, as it currently stands if you buy a copy of HoT and you already own the base game, you do not actually get another CD-key for the base game!  So you're already getting a deal worse than the deal ANET claims to be making with you, and on top of that if you're out of character slots you need to pay even more (yes, I realize you can delete a character or pay with gold, but that is essentially paying with your time and therefore definitely not free) to get a character slot to play the new profession.

Oh, but you say I've been getting a good deal all this time?  Well, I agree.  That's why for years now I have expressed my loyalty and rewarded them by buying gems.  I also agree that when an expansion is on the horizon it is time to demonstrate loyalty; time for the developer to demonstrate loyalty to the long-term fans!  This expansion will make significant changes to the professions and many game effects (movement/leap abilities, how conditions work, etc.).  If I remember correctly (and I do) someone here said that the changes are so vast that it should essentially be called GW3.  Thus, it is not unreasonable for current players to be a little worried that ANET might be screwing up a good thing, and by extension it would make sense for ANET to try and shore up our faith by making some gesture of appreciation.  Doesn’t have to be a big deal, just something to say “hey, we noticed you’ve been playing our game, and we’re about to make some big changes to it.  We know that you might be a bit worried about all the changes, but we’re hoping you stick with us.  Either way, we’re pleased to offer you ______ because we appreciate all our customers, not just the new ones.”

Now this “gesture of appreciation” doesn’t have to be a big thing, doesn’t have to be a character slot, doesn’t have to be some gems, doesn’t even have to be a skin.  It could have been any little thing.  What did ANET decide to give us instead?  Not nothing, no.  Less than nothing, in fact; they straight up penalized their existing customer base by offering a deal which is objectively worse than that being offered to new people.

In short, one is left with the impression that ANET has been being duplicitous for months if not years, and that they simply don’t care about you at all once they have your money.  That’s fine, they’re not obliged to care about me, but I’m similarly not obliged to keep giving them money.  This has already been a great year for games and it is looking to get better; I can and will spend the money that would have gone to ANET elsewhere.

As I wrote earlier, I think they realize they’ve bitten the hand that feeds and will offer us some sort of compromise, and if they do then it is likely I will pick up HoT.  However, there’s no way in hell I’ll be pre-ordering and implicitly rewarding them for behaving in this awful manner.

[Ehm C Hammer]

Slein Jinn, on 18 June 2015 - 12:40 PM, said:

So what's going to give you more entertainment for your money?  A buy-to-play MMO is basically the most economical form of entertainment that exists.  If GW2 is bad value, then what exactly would be good value?

yeah, you are probably right, but i just expected (hoped) for more in addition to what they have already given me from my original purchase. I am hard to please I guess
I would have been more likely to give them many hundreds more dollars for gems if I simply thought the price for what "I" (selfishly) want out of the expansion was reasonable. Also, the cost of the upgraded additions and what they offer simply do not give anything of value imho.
Oh well, each person has their own opinion and I am sure mine is seemingly selfish. I simply expected more from a company that had such a great platform to build on but never seemed to.... and when they did, it just wasn't very awe-inspiring, not to mention the game just kinda rotted for a while (months) while they worked on it.

p.s. i am not angry at ANET, i am not saying FU ANET and I am not saying that I did not enjoy the game up until lately....I am simply disappointed because I like all the people I have met and played with here and I see a future with less and less of them online. that's it, that's all

[Aduah]

Sanji, on 18 June 2015 - 05:54 AM, said:

*I waited for witcher and got assassin creed black flag for free one week or so into the release.

I got AC:BF, some FPS and arkham asylum for free. Best 360 bucks I ever spent. xD AC:BF was sooooo pretty on that brand new graphics card.

[Sanji]

In the end either I get HoT or not I can still WvW on the new so....that's probably my last comment here until a release date and if new promos come out.

[Gudradain]

Glad to see everyone hyped