145 replies to this topic

[Liric]

I love Potter Puppet Pals.

[Grav]

KaiSumeragi, on 10 September 2015 - 07:51 AM, said:

But my interest and my guild's interest is whether we should worry about a T5 matchup and the amount and quality of fights from there.

If the fights are good in T5, we are not going to worry a lot about PPT.If not,then we have a vested interest in keeping us in T4 or better.

One other thing to consider is that we would likely swap with DB if we fall to T5, whom *nobody* enjoys fighting.  So while on one hand dropping to T5 might be considered a negative thing in isolation, our presence would definitely improve T5 overall and may help bring out the best in our opponents there after having suffered DB for so long.

It still wouldn't be a total wasteland either.  DH is still a High pop server, and we would still be the highest ranked Medium server, so we still have that about us for other people considering cheap transfers.

I'm easy either way.

[Liric]

Grav, on 10 September 2015 - 01:56 PM, said:

I'm easy

:-*

[cassy]

KaiSumeragi, on 10 September 2015 - 07:51 AM, said:

But my interest and my guild's interest is whether we should worry about a T5 matchup and the amount and quality of fights from there.
If the fights are good in T5, we are not going to worry a lot about PPT.If not,then we have a vested interest in keeping us in T4 or better.

This site has shockingly good stats about the fights.  http://coveragewars2.com/timezone/
At the moment many of our WvW regulars are going back to school either, as students or teachers so everything is up in the air.  There is also an influx of new players with free accounts.  So keep in mind the next week or two won't necessarily be the usual coverage for any server.
I don't think we are particularly close to rising, or falling a tier, so it will take a bit of time either way.

Rimmy1a, on 10 September 2015 - 08:50 AM, said:

Edit: long meandering sentences happen when you are on a phone - take the meaning and ignore the structure.

  Ooh I do that too . . .my Ipad makes everything look all weird especially pictures, I'll note it next time.  I forget that is the SOP here.

Please disregard at your leisure, this is the off topic portion:

Spoiler

Rimmy1a, on 10 September 2015 - 08:50 AM, said:

"Others" weren't offended at the swearing, they were offended at the tone and perceived hostility of Slein's rejection and skewering of what they had said.

Slein has even said that he used those words to convey the tone.  He intended to be offensive, and he was offensive.  I don't think that is really in dispute.

Liric, on 10 September 2015 - 09:03 AM, said:

If someone is offended by "bad language", Slein is not obligated to care.

No he isn't, did I say that he should?   However, there is a time and place for that, but not on a public thread about transfers . . . .  you guys keep wanting me to change my opinion, or to, "overcome my training"?  I didn't ask anyone to change themselves, I am simply being honest in my description of the situation.

Also whether you think it is good or bad it is literally crude language.
Crude- Adj meaning primitive, simple, rudimentary, lacking refinement, or makeshift.
Articulate- Adj meaning eloquent, fluent, expressive verb. to express fluently or coherently

To be rudimentary is the opposite of fluent.  To be crude can mean the opposite of articulate.  It isn't a judgement of good or bad, it is just useful words and their meanings.

Crude language is generally derived from Low English(mainly Germanic with some Gaelic influences).
More formal, and most intellectual language is generally derived from High English. (Mainly from the Norman period)
You may choose to argue, but this isn't just my opinion, it is easily verifiable, and the link was for the Oxford English dictionary because it had an excellent explanation.

I could cite Wikipedia, The Merriam English Dictionary, Oxford Journals, etc. there are also a number of popular magazines with articles of varying quality on the subject, a few books, and several peer reviewed works on the subject.

If you have something that says the opposite then please cite it.

Rimmy1a, on 10 September 2015 - 08:50 AM, said:

You were taught to be offended at certain words, terms, and ideas. Lots of people are, and early training tends to last the longest - can you overcome yours?

I was taught no such thing, and I don't know why you are repeating that.  We all curse at times, that includes me.  If I intend to offend you, you will be aware of it and there will be no confusion.

[Rimmy1a]

Rimmy1a, on 10 September 2015 - 08:50 AM, said:

"Others" weren't offended at the swearing, they were offended at the tone and perceived hostility of Slein's rejection and skewering of what they had said.

cassy, on 10 September 2015 - 07:03 PM, said:

Slein has even said that he used those words to convey the tone.  He intended to be offensive, and he was offensive.  I don't think that is really in dispute.

It's like you're trying to dispute what I said but with words that echo exactly what I said. You zoomed in on the swear, namely: "fucking".

That was a small part of the whole, and it was a part of creating the intended tone and sentiment.

cassy, on 10 September 2015 - 07:03 PM, said:

No he isn't, did I say that he should?   However, there is a time and place for that, but not on a public thread about transfers . . . .  you guys keep wanting me to change my opinion, or to, "overcome my training"?  I didn't ask anyone to change themselves, I am simply being honest in my description of the situation.

No, you were giving your personal opinion on "the situation", and tried to police an interaction that didn't need to be policed.

And you most certainly did ask people to change themselves, when you decided and announced what did and did not need to be in a public thread. You don't have scope or the pull to decide what other people should or should not do, and your personal preferences only apply to your own actions, not those of others.

cassy, on 10 September 2015 - 07:03 PM, said:

Also whether you think it is good or bad it is literally crude language.
Crude- Adj meaning primitive, simple, rudimentary, lacking refinement, or makeshift.
Articulate- Adj meaning eloquent, fluent, expressive verb. to express fluently or coherently

To be rudimentary is the opposite of fluent.  To be crude can mean the opposite of articulate.  It isn't a judgement of good or bad, it is just useful words and their meanings.

From the definitions you have posted, rudimentary is not the opposite of articulate. Slein was fluent, coherent and expressive (indeed, it is how expressive that seems to be a sticking point) and while his eloquence is up to the individual reader to judge, this was a conversation and not a treaty between nation states.

I could deliver a completely articulate lecture on ontological empiricism and swear the entire time. Leaving aside the "lacking refinement" definition, which would be a cultural rather than a linguistic metric, there is nothing inherently primitive or simple about swearing unless you also apply those terms to the bulk of spoken and written non-technical English. Makeshift? I didn't see him struggling with other words because he didn't know the right one.

cassy, on 10 September 2015 - 07:03 PM, said:

I was taught no such thing, and I don't know why you are repeating that.

Your reaction and focus on the word "fucking" started it, but I'm prepared to be told I'm wrong about what you were taught.

Tell me, did no authority figures teach you about "bad words" before you were considered an adult in your culture? Have you never corrected or taught the same to any children since?

Because that's how the reactive behavior gets taught and perpetuated - literally something that serves no purpose other than to keep teaching people to be offended at words rather than holistic meaning.

[Blackthorn]

Something about seeing just the word "fucking" between quotation marks makes me happy.

[Slein Jinn]

Rimmy1a, on 10 September 2015 - 09:23 PM, said:

Have you never corrected or taught the same to any children since?

I basically just teach them that these are words you don't say all the time.

[KaiX]

Grav, on 10 September 2015 - 01:56 PM, said:

One other thing to consider is that we would likely swap with DB if we fall to T5, whom *nobody* enjoys fighting.  So while on one hand dropping to T5 might be considered a negative thing in isolation, our presence would definitely improve T5 overall and may help bring out the best in our opponents there after having suffered DB for so long.

It still wouldn't be a total wasteland either.  DH is still a High pop server, and we would still be the highest ranked Medium server, so we still have that about us for other people considering cheap transfers.

I'm easy either way.

Agreed.  I really don't understand the whole doom and gloom associated with dropping to t5.  Yes I know the last time was a pretty shitty time because DH and AR had just imploded and were dead.  Now they are not.  DH has a higher population than us for gods sake.  There will be fights.  Anyone who still thinks the current matchup we're in is fun is completely delusional in my eyes.  It hasn't been fun since the first week.

[Silvernis]

KaiX, on 11 September 2015 - 05:06 AM, said:

Agreed.  I really don't understand the whole doom and gloom associated with dropping to t5.  Yes I know the last time was a pretty shitty time because DH and AR had just imploded and were dead.  Now they are not.  DH has a higher population than us for gods sake.  There will be fights.  Anyone who still thinks the current matchup we're in is fun is completely delusional in my eyes.  It hasn't been fun since the first week.

If dropping a tier or two means more roaming/havoc/small scale and less dealing with blobs of chickens, then sign me up.

[Rimmy1a]

Blackthorn, on 11 September 2015 - 01:48 AM, said:

Something about seeing just the word "fucking" between quotation marks makes me happy.

As a deep thinker once said, "If it makes you happy, then it can't be that ba-a-a-ad."

Slein Jinn, on 11 September 2015 - 03:41 AM, said:

I basically just teach them that these are words you don't say all the time.

An excellent stance which could well help a generation discard cultural artifacts that create more harm than good.

They are words used to add shades of meaning anyway, and children generally only intend one level of meaning when they say something anyway.

[Biff Rangoon]

Silvernis, on 11 September 2015 - 08:46 AM, said:

If dropping a tier or two means more roaming/havoc/small scale and less dealing with blobs of chickens, then sign me up.

Two would definitely be too much. It sounds like T6 is boring as hell after the first few days, even for competent roamers. As I understand it, servers run one big omniblob when they can, and then it's Deadsville otherwise. Our roamers would destroy their roamers and small groups, our zergbusting groups would skewer their omniblobs, we'd dominate ppt, and the boredom would make us all sad pandas.

At least, that's what I've surmised.

[Sanji]

Mehh we go to tier 5 we stabilize there, mehhh we stay in tier 4 we deal with ppt servers, mehhh we do tier 6 meeeh we don't have the glicko low enough for it so mehhh we int getting omniblob deadsville....meehhh its likes 100+ posts on this let rgn treat us like always chicken to hero...or hero to chicken.

Mehhh see yous around.

[Wicked]

Ebay would make a great addition to T5, as DH would be a constant for a couple of weeks atleast with possible rotation of the 3rd server depending on how much Ebay and DH beat them , the fights should be quite fun.  Don't know if the tier itself would be stable because it's tough to say if Ebay has more pop than DB, but I do know that DH and Ebay would provide fights that atleast 1  of the 3 3rd server rotations are itching for currently because T6 is in fact boring as hell.  And it would be nice if it happened tonight, but probably not going to, but if it did, it might get your core regs out

[KaiX]

Wicked, on 11 September 2015 - 01:30 PM, said:

Ebay would make a great addition to T5, as DH would be a constant for a couple of weeks atleast with possible rotation of the 3rd server depending on how much Ebay and DH beat them , the fights should be quite fun.  Don't know if the tier itself would be stable because it's tough to say if Ebay has more pop than DB, but I do know that DH and Ebay would provide fights that atleast 1  of the 3 3rd server rotations are itching for currently because T6 is in fact boring as hell.  And it would be nice if it happened tonight, but probably not going to, but if it did, it might get your core regs out

6% chance hype.

[cassy]

Blackthorn, on 11 September 2015 - 01:48 AM, said:

Something about seeing just the word "fucking" between quotation marks makes me happy.

"fucking", is good fun, please enjoy.  Austria is lovely at any time of year.



Here ensues the lengthy argument.

Spoiler

Slein Jinn, on 11 September 2015 - 03:41 AM, said:

I basically just teach them that these are words you don't say all the time.

In my job, kids who use profanity get kicked out of any private programs, and end up unemployable, isolated, and if they no longer have family to care for them they can end up institutionalized.  Special Ed. kids are held to a certain standard, and it seems wrong to hold you guys to a lower standard. Should I really hold you to a lower standard than a kid with an IQ of 40?

Rimmy1a, on 10 September 2015 - 09:23 PM, said:

It's like you're trying to dispute what I said but with words that echo exactly what I said.

When I said it wasn't really in dispute . . .that didn't mean I was disputing it . . . I was pointing out that we weren't disagreeing, and used what you both had said to make the point.  

Rimmy1a, on 10 September 2015 - 09:23 PM, said:

Your reaction and focus on the word "fucking" started it, but I'm prepared to be told I'm wrong about what you were taught.

This seems confused. I never said anything about any specific word . . .

This is what I actually said:

cassy, on 08 September 2015 - 07:24 PM, said:

I have seen you kick ass in the past, and if you want to I am sure you will in the future.
However, your use of expletives makes it seem as though you are the inarticulate one here.  I'm not sure how it works in Poland, but here bad language largely ends before a person is considered a respectable adult so expletives are often considered puerile.

I didn't question anyone's upbringing, education, etc.  I didn't even actually ask him to change anything. I just pointed out that his use of expletives undermined the point he was making.

Rimmy1a, on 10 September 2015 - 09:23 PM, said:

No, you were giving your personal opinion on "the situation", and tried to police an interaction that didn't need to be policed.

I certainly did give my opinion, and we all have a right to our own opinions.  When our opinions differ logic and reason are more likely to be persuasive rather than questioning my upbringing, authority figures, etc.  Making things personal in that way isn't likely to build any consensus or reasonable discussion.

[Slein Jinn]

cassy, on 11 September 2015 - 06:21 PM, said:

In my job, kids who use profanity get kicked out of any private programs, and end up unemployable, isolated, and if they no longer have family to care for them they can end up institutionalized.  Special Ed. kids are held to a certain standard, and it seems wrong to hold you guys to a lower standard. Should I really hold you to a lower standard than a kid with an IQ of 40?

No, by the sound of it, you should stop abusing kids with IQ's of 40.  

cassy, on 11 September 2015 - 06:21 PM, said:

I certainly did give my opinion, and we all have a right to our own opinions.  When our opinions differ logic and reason are more likely to be persuasive rather than questioning my upbringing, authority figures, etc.  Making things personal in that way isn't likely to build any consensus or reasonable discussion.

Except when the rational argument is about peoples' upbringings.  It's a pretty big leap to accuse him of ad hominem attacks in this instance.

[cassy]

Slein Jinn, on 11 September 2015 - 07:03 PM, said:

No, by the sound of it, you should stop abusing kids with IQ's of 40.  

It isn't abuse, simply employ-ability.  Not even Walmart will hire kids who curse at customers, or while they are working.

Preparing kids for reality is necessary.  Setting them up to be successful, independent, and capable of healthy relationships is the goal.
A student who is wearing a diaper is simply more employable than one who curses.  Kids who can't work are entirely dependent on the benevolence and capability of others.  When they are young and cute there are many people who are sympathetic and want to help.  When they are 35, or 45, there tend to be far fewer people who demonstrate benevolence and compassion.

The school system, and the government will take care of people no matter how they behave, but that is institutional care.

Out of curiosity, how does Poland treat kids with special needs?

[Slein Jinn]

cassy, on 11 September 2015 - 07:28 PM, said:

It isn't abuse, simply employ-ability.  

Swearing at customers might adversely affect them later in life, but "kicking them out of any private programmes" can't help them earlier in life.  

cassy, on 11 September 2015 - 07:28 PM, said:

Out of curiosity, how does Poland treat kids with special needs?

I haven't got anything to do with special education and am not really qualified to answer that, but here's a decent overview.  Pretty standard fare as far as I know.

[Wicked]

http://www.fuckthiswebsite.com

I'll just leave this here.  I came across the 1st book a few years ago and almost bought stickers, but I'm an adult and didn't want to get arrested .  Still brings a smile to my face reading what a sign could have said.  Sometimes crudness is comedy gold, and everyone needs a laugh now and then.

[Cora]

Most of the posts in this thread are too fucking long, you dongers need to dumb it down some more.