145 replies to this topic

[Rimmy1a]

Bishop, on 04 September 2015 - 01:21 AM, said:

I play to win. We win by points, plain and simple.

As long as you're flexible enough to come to terms with people that have a different personal idea of winning while you're going for points, you'll do fine here.

[Kruegs]

From a WS perspective we're here to get better fights, as long as the server doesn't tank to a place where there's no PST fights we'll stay and contribute. If I/we do anything to piss anyone off let me or Kai know and we'll try to remedy. I do have a bunch of trolls in WS but most of them are focused on the enemy so you should be spared outside some mapchat non-sense at times.

[Bishop]

Thanks for putting out your perspective Kruegs. I do have a lot of respect for fight guilds, and what they can do. They are critical in getting us to T3, which is my goal. You can't take (or keep) most things without some PvP. You can't get the best fights without taking or defending things they want. We have here a mutually beneficial relationship. I personally like both. I guess the only thing I really don't like are those who don't zone into WvW at all.

Darkhaven had this same polarization, just more intense. I had a great collaboration with the other pugmanders. Like me, we all wanted to get better at fighting. Most of us joined different fight guilds. The problem was, several of those guilds pulled out of WvW contributing altogether. They did only GvG and PvP, while only zoning into WvW to test out new tactics. I ended up solo tagging for 8-12 hours straight.

We're on the same side. Just please don't lose the war while you win the battle. Near as I can tell, half of your WvW population is idle because they think it's impossible to beat HoD.

[Kruegs]

DB is on the rise again (hearing rumors of a LUN return) so from the short time I've been here it looks like we're going to be the lowest pop server in T4. Short term ensuring NSP gets the T5 stick is what I'd look to accomplish.

Also we're not really a pure fight guild (we don't GvG) we're sort of a hybrid guild cause of the nature of the TZ we play. PST is all about defending BL and corner pushes from late night float groups. So we spend a decent amount of time jumping from BL to BL killing groups trying to take our T3 stuff. In T2 we'd try to make it to midnight PST to get a sort of hand off to OCX, not sure if you guys even have OCX. Anyway you really don't have to offensive PPT in PST if you're the low population server you just sort of maintain the home BL, and EB corner and hope whomever is looking to PVD is going after the 3rd server's BL cause they're getting farmed on our home bl. Like last night we jumped into EBBL like 4 times to wipe those RISE shitlords and then back EBG to maintain our third and hopefully hold SMC. IF you can just hold that you can tick like 280-300 for hours on end and upgrade stuff pretty darn fast.

I think we could beat HOD in PST for sure. Assuming home BL is safe we could paper at least a keep every night i bet. They are shit we were farming Grimaldi's zerg with way less people on Wednesday and we didn't even have the whole guild over yet. We'll see tonight as it's out first official raid.

[Grav]

[EBAY] is probably our largest OCX presence, with support from individual stay-up-laters from various other guilds.  We're a very casual bunch though, usually kept busy trying to keep our own house in order most nights before we look elsewhere.  We sometimes batphone Woe if they're running late, but would gladly work with any other guilds running in that PST/OCX window too.  I've already added you Kruegs, I'm Grav Tate (usually) in-game.

DB will always attract fairweather PPT guilds because they know they will always have a solid SEA to carry them to a large extent.  They will return to T4 eventually, and for a while it looked like they would displace us, but since we've been growing as a server these last few weeks it looks like NSP could be the ones to drop eventually.  Having said that, both NSP and EBay are within RNG range of T5 atm, so you never know.

I think we've just tended to focus NSP firstly just to secure our spot in T4, and more recently to try and at least hold second.  If/as we keep growing, we can do just enough to keep NSP in third and then start to hit HoD some more to challenge for #10.

In any case, as long as we all take the time to get to know each other in our respective timezones, and learn to work together at our own pace, respecting each other's strengths and preferences, the results will come naturally without having to try and force it.  That's pretty much how it's worked here for the last 6-9 months, and it's worked well enough for us so far.

[Xheal]

Think there are some questions that need to be answered going forward.

Does the server really want to push for T3? That would require a lot more coverage and ppting, we're the lowest population of T4, I would imagine with all the transfers to the T3 servers in the last month, that they are much bigger than HoD. I would also imagine that T3 is now as blobby as T2 was, guilds left T2 in part to get away from those blobs, do we really want to go there?

Does the server really want to stay in T4? where roaming and havok seem to be in a sweet spot? That would require putting the beating on NSP, as well as putting a hurting on HOD's ppt to drain their glicko and hopefully DB stays behind long enough to maybe flip with NSP. That means venturing into enemy lands and papering keeps more often so they are juicer targets rather than Ehmry homebl and ebg, which tends to get ktrained and then back capped by both those servers during the day.

As it is players and guilds on Ehmry play however they want to play, most people are chill in doing their own thing. Not really so much people are idle because we can't beat HOD, (frankly most of their guilds can get one pushed by Ehmry guilds), it's we don't have their numbers and coverage and that wins ppt wars, unless people want to put in overtime, which I doubt.

[Gudradain]

I would say that we should stay in T4. One very easy thing that we could do to drain HoD rating is to "host" the daily fight night in HoD bl instead of EBG. If all the server is in that BL, it will bring all HoD into that BL too and hopefully NSP get some clue and join in for the 3-way fights just like in EBG.

Just take it as a sugestion but we are capping EBG every single nights lately and the 3 other borderlands are practically empty (except on reset)

[soulless]

I just want to say if you want to be a fight guild be one, If you want to run for ppt go ahead IMO.  This is not a discussion point for us to argue about because we haven't and I don't expect any tensions to arrive unless it literally did.  EBay is play how you play, you are right and we have been rising on the back of that.

[RizeJodo]

Definitely agree with soulless.

We have a reputation for being a little more chill.

If you want to PPT then do so. If you want to be a fights oriented guild; do it nobody is going to stop you. If you want to duel do it! Others may disagree with you but you aren't going to be excommunicated for it.

If we go to T3 so be it. If we drop to T5 then that's cool too. If you do/don't want either of those things to happen do what is in your power to change it. You can suggest to others that it's the best course of action and some might help you. But you can't make them play the way you want.

[Bishop]

First of all, no one is arguing. It may be a passionate discussion, but everyone's civil. Being quiet not letting anyone know why we feel the way we are and do the things we do is a problem.

WvW is a cooperative match. We share resources. We have map queue limits. PPTers can't make rams alone. PvPers can't zerg alone. The concept of you do your things, I will do mine is short-sighted. I've seen that both groups are dissatisfied, to the point they don't like zoning in. On the other hand, PPT groups coordinating with Fighting zergs works best. A simple message to the other tags on the map is a start. Tell them where you are, what you're doing, how many you have, and how long you're on. That helps a lot. If you're willing to coordinate more, we can do even more.

[cassy]

Well while the EBG was qued up, I went and flipped 6 camps on a BL solo.
So the EBG que is helping to keep the fight guilds fighting in a nice little corner, where they don't make too much of a mess .  .  .  Our very strong havoc groups can flip enough to push the tick the way we want it, so we are in a really good sustainable situation.  It is quite a bit of Glicko to go up a tier, or down a tier, so I don't think we need to worry about it too much at the moment.  We might get ahead of NSP which would be nice, but HOD is still between us and the next tier.

Bishop, on 06 September 2015 - 07:32 PM, said:

A simple message to the other tags on the map is a start. Tell them where you are, what you're doing, how many you have, and how long you're on. That helps a lot. If you're willing to coordinate more, we can do even more.

This can certainly be a concern, but if you get to know the commanders and the guilds you can quickly get messages to the groups that you need to contact to coordinate.

COT and WOE are great to call in when there is a big group, but ZERG, EBAY, GH, TV, ICEE etc are all present most of the time, and can usually stop smaller groups.
Sometimes the big guilds have small groups, and sometimes the smaller guilds have big groups, but that is how I look at things when I am figuring out who to call.

Keeping the big groups in the big fights, and the havoc groups in the havoc fights usually results in good things.   I run solo, havoc, and zerg at times so I have had a chance to get to know a lot of people.  I can't think of a single guild that won't work with you on a Team effort, although sometimes there are differences of opinion about the best move to make.

Also I have found that rather than telling people what they should do, I often tell them what I am doing.  Such as I am going to Bravost, or I am flipping SE camp.  If they want to join they can, if they need help they can say something, or if that frees them up to flip something else, they have the info they need to do something cool.

[Omni Cide]

Bishop, you seem like a pretty decent guy so I hope you don’t take this as a personal attack (because it truly isn’t), but based on the posts I’ve read from you so far you seem to have little to no understanding of Ehmry.  I don’t think that’s due to any sort of innate deficiency on your part, but rather due to your limited experience (less than a month?) with our server.  I’m not bringing that up to be condescending or to invalidate your arguments; my point is simply that if you knew us better, you would understand why we’re not onboard with your goal of getting to T3 and your ideas for achieving it.  Believe it or not, you’re far from the first person to transfer to Ehmry and express a strong desire to “organize the server so we can climb tiers.”  Each time it happens that person is told basically the same thing: “actually we’re pretty happy with things as they are.”  I’m aware that you’ve expressed a belief that people are so dissatisfied with the lack of coordination in WvW that they’re not even zoning in, but honestly man I have no idea what you’re talking about when you say that… you’re literally the only person I’m aware of who has expressed any such dissatisfaction in recent memory.  Even if there was evidence to support your theory that people aren’t logging into WvW (and I don’t see that evidence) it would make more sense to attribute that to the fact that many students have less time to play as it is now September.

Most of the people I’ve met on Ehmry are quite intelligent, so I assure you that after three years if we wanted to be more organized we would be.  However, this isn’t a war, and we’re not soldiers.  It’s a video game, and we’re looking to have fun.  Now that’s not to say that we’re anti-organization or that being organized is mutually exclusive with having fun.  On the contrary, stick around and you’ll get many opportunities to see cooperation between PPTers and fights-oriented players (every seasoned fight-oriented player knows you have to do some PPTing to avoid falling to a dead tier anyway).  In fact, as a fight-oriented player I greatly appreciate it when PPTers ask for help dealing with groups attacking our structures, because that means I’ll be getting a fight!  On the other hand, I don’t appreciate it at all when someone tries to tell me that I should PPT more, or that I should at least be fighting in WvW more so I can help the PPTers keep our tick high.  Especially when the reward would be moving up to a tier where one has to PPT even more just to avoid falling back down!  That is pretty much the opposite of a compelling argument.

Everyone has their own aspirations, so respecting other people’s right to say “no, I don’t want to do that” is simply the mature thing to do.  It’s also a major part of Ehmry’s culture.  So when people say “you do what you want, and I’ll do what I want” they’re not saying they refuse to cooperate, rather they are saying “I respect your right to pursue your aspirations, and likewise I will pursue mine, and when those aspirations align I will be happy to work with you.”  I’m proud to be part of a server where the majority of the people recognize that, and I’d continue to be a proud member even if said server was in dead last (and I’m not just saying that, we’ve actually been there).  Trying to shame or chastise people into doing what they don’t really want to will only lead to irritation and resentment.   Furthermore, anyone who tries to do that on Ehmry is going to stick out like a sore thumb, and will likely find they’ve quickly built a rather unattractive reputation for themselves.

Nonetheless, as I wrote earlier I absolutely respect your right to pursue your own aspirations.  Even though I don’t agree with them I definitely respect your enthusiasm, and if you can find a way to coexist with our culture I have no doubt that you’d be an asset to Ehmry.  Just try not to fall into the trap of chastising people when they don’t cooperate with you; you’ll get far more support if you simply express appreciation when they do.

[Grav]

Omni Cide, on 06 September 2015 - 11:59 PM, said:

So when people say “you do what you want, and I’ll do what I want” they’re not saying they refuse to cooperate, rather they are saying “I respect your right to pursue your aspirations, and likewise I will pursue mine, and when those aspirations align I will be happy to work with you.”

Well said.

To be fair to Bishop's comments though, I suspect that as we all get to know each other a bit better, that cross-guild/cross-map co-ordination can/will improve to a degree anyway.  Just gotta go with the flow and let it happen naturally over time.

And yes Bishop is a cool dude, we've hung out on TS together quite a lot already.

[cassy]

Grav, on 07 September 2015 - 12:12 AM, said:

And yes Bishop is a cool dude, we've hung out on TS together quite a lot already.

It just seems like he is new.
I haven't been able to hang out with anyone on TS for a while
I will have to wallow in South East Asian comedies instead . . . oh darn . . .

[Bishop]

I really appreciate you guys. You are fair-minded and are committed to your community. I certainly don't have the whole lay of the land. I have been pleasantly surprised already with the degree of coordination from a few guilds.

I have seen a little complacency and lack of urgency to tear into WvW, some on TS, others in guild and map chat. I don't want you guys to mistake the message as this is a bad server. This is a very good server from where I sit, that could be great. In other words, I think we need to eliminate some of the deterrents to zoning in, and add some focus and purpose.

Darkhaven had the attitude that some parts of the day were our turn to own the map, and give them control on others. It drove me nuts. Once we broke our people out of that rut our overall points, and even PPT during our strong times drastically improved, since our big guilds were logging into paper opponents and a secure homefront. Honestly, I don't know if that's what's going on here, but it would be good to prevent it.

[Rimmy1a]

Bishop, on 07 September 2015 - 08:31 AM, said:

I really appreciate you guys. You are fair-minded and are committed to your community. I certainly don't have the whole lay of the land. I have been pleasantly surprised already with the degree of coordination from a few guilds.

I have seen a little complacency and lack of urgency to tear into WvW, some on TS, others in guild and map chat. I don't want you guys to mistake the message as this is a bad server. This is a very good server from where I sit, that could be great. In other words, I think we need to eliminate some of the deterrents to zoning in, and add some focus and purpose.

Darkhaven had the attitude that some parts of the day were our turn to own the map, and give them control on others. It drove me nuts. Once we broke our people out of that rut our overall points, and even PPT during our strong times drastically improved, since our big guilds were logging into paper opponents and a secure homefront. Honestly, I don't know if that's what's going on here, but it would be good to prevent it.

A definite deterrent to people wanting to play is if it turns from "fun" to "work". There is no inherent fun to going up a tier unless we are consistently blowing the other two servers out of the water.

But like others have said: have at it. If you find like-minded individuals, nobody is going to tell you to knock it off.

[Slein Jinn]

Bishop, on 04 September 2015 - 04:25 PM, said:

I guess the only thing I really don't like are those who don't zone into WvW at all.

If I don't feel like playing in WvW, who the fuck are you to tell me how to spend my play time?  If, in any given play session, I think I'll find more enjoyment in sPvP than I would in WvW, then I'm going to go play sPvP, and anyone who tries to make me feel guilty about that decision can go fuck themselves with a rusty spoon.  

Playing in WvW is something that people should do because they want to do it and not for any other reason.

[Rimmy1a]

Like a sandpaper smoothie, but still well within range of standard Ehmry sentiments. *nods*

[Maksyn]

DO WORK NOOBS.

DRAMADRAMADRAMADRAMADRAMADRAMADRAMADRAMADRAMADRAMA.

[soulless]

Sandpaper smoothy, gotta use that one