326 replies to this topic

[Chappy]

Toegra, on 19 December 2012 - 06:53 PM, said:

The point is about thuley encouraging the bad rep of pk insteaf of staying out of it or taking a mutual standpoint.
One side can't attempt to fix a problem while other sides invest in the problem

I believe the word you are looking for is "impartial".
And you are right, Thuley should not only stay out of it but he should discourage the members of this forum from slandering other members.
You can communicate this idea without openly bashing him in a childish thread.

In fact i already made this suggestion to Thuley, and he informed me that he has already taken steps to do so. Progress!

This is a new forum for a new game. Thuley might be new to running a forum too, so he needs to learn as we go along. There will be mistakes.

[Chappy]

Siiddhartha, on 19 December 2012 - 06:53 PM, said:

Do we all get a vote?

No

[Toegra]

Chappy you seem more on the path to cause problems.  I can't control what people think.
Since you are set in on causing problems instead of fixing them I will not be responding to you.
Thank you for your input. And I appreciate you taking time to offer thuley advice to better the forums.

[Chappy]

Toegra, on 19 December 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

Chappy you seem more on the path to cause problems.  I can't control what people think.
Since you are set in on causing problems instead of fixing them I will not be responding to you.
Thank you for your input. And I appreciate you taking time to offer thuley advice to better the forums.

If that is the only thing you have taken away from this conversation, there is no hope for you

[Siiddhartha]

I think what we can all take away from this is:

• If you agree with a post from someone from the guild who shall not be named, you are a mature, intelligent member of this community.
  
• If you disagree, you are the cause of all of these problems and don't show proper respect to your betters.

[Ralathar]

Avis, on 19 December 2012 - 07:48 AM, said:

What is even happening with pK? Why are they getting so much crap?

They started out with a bad reputation because they used to have worse attitudes.  Currently their attitudes are not perfect but they are improving and they are surrounding themselves with better attitudes that are helping them improve.  They made the choice to recruit better people and attempt to better themselves instead of making it the select club of the folks they used to be.

Unfortunately they still mess up from time and to and many have never forgiven their former reputation.  Ironic how much harder the road to redemption is and yet people are all too happy to actually judge you WORSE for your attempt.

Now there is a mix of respect, hate, and neutral people in regards to PK.  There are also a handful of dishonest people who paint themselves as neutral but are promoting hate as well.


PK has a deserved rep because reps last a long time.  However the PK that earned the rep is not the same PK that exists currently.  The current PK is somewhere between good and bad, black and white, heaven and hell, but it's heading UP.  I'm just here to help that.




If PK was clearly good or bad there wouldn't be any drama.  It's the fact that it's on the road to redemption that has made it controversial.  That and the fact that some people are getting their jollies off of exploiting their old rep while acting innocent.  This thread is more or less a frustrated reaction to Thuely continuing to side with those folks.

[Toegra]

Chappy.  For the reference I read all your posts, fully. I am responding on my phone so its difficult to reply to them all.
And stid, I don't mind if someone disagrees. But saying "don't troll" while attempting to troll someone, does nobody good.

[Chappy]

Toegra, on 19 December 2012 - 07:22 PM, said:

Chappy.  For the reference I read all your posts, fully. I am responding on my phone so its difficult to reply to them all.
And stid, I don't mind if someone disagrees. But saying "don't troll" while attempting to troll someone, does nobody good.

I am neither saying you should not troll, nor am i trolling myself.
I am giving you an unfiltered explanation of both the likely results of your actions and the reality of your current situation. Go right ahead and troll, i don't care, i'm not the one who's reputation needs to be repaired. For every step down, you will need to take several more to get back up.

It doesn't surprise me that you have taken my dry approach as hostile, given how sensitive you appear to be. As you get older you will learn that taking the internet personally is not worth the effort.

:edit:
I should also add that my other motive in this thread was to step in for Thuley, who i believe has given us a lot, and deserves some courtesy.

[Ralathar]

Tawa, on 19 December 2012 - 12:44 PM, said:

This is one major case of both General Hellsing and Madison being unable to control their own guild members.

In the original thread, after Madison admitted she was under a lot of stress causing that sudden attack on General Hellsing for his honest question- ( seriously, anyone would ask what's with the name drop if it was any other guild or person instead. No one wants their name tied to a tragedy, even as an example. ) - I thought it would just end there with both guild leaders walking away with their differences.

Sadly, that's wasn't the case as both [PUNK] and [PK] members became white knights for their team. It was simply an issue between Madison and General Hellsing that was almost cleared up. Maybe an apology from Madison or a simple edit to take out PK out of the original post would have been done and dealt with. But that's just coulda/woulda/shouldas and it's way too late.

I'm really disappointed in how this has been handled by both sides and the peanut gallery jumping up and down on it. The utter lack of either guild leader coming in and telling their more vocal members to cool down and be more respectful rather than going "We're in the right, they're wrong." leaves me with a terrible impression of both guilds. It's like a pack of wild dogs lashing out at whatever moves. I just hope that some lessons are learned from this whole debacle and things are handled better without letting your guild members throw mud at each other.

You are right in a way but it's a little more complicated than that.  It goes deeper than just two people or quite simply I wouldn't be present other than to tell both sides to STFU.  There is a fair amount of resentment and mistakes on both sides of the issue.

The thing with Madison and her post simply would not have happened had it not been a trend.  It's a trend exemplified by her but she is not alone in it.  Likewise our guys in PK shouldn't so readily take the bait.  If they resisted a bit better it'd be a little easier for the truth to be shown.  Instead their angry responses muddle the issue further and ironically lend credence to the negative feelings against them.

It's not a simple resolution.  On one side you have a group of people who greatly desire the attention and sympathy of being the victim OR the humor of trolling PK.  On the other hand you have PK who wishes to restrain themselves but are still in the process of learning how after years of being younger, ruder, and more rash.

The only thing I can promise is that PK understands this and is working towards getting better despite all the recent blowouts.  It's just really really pissing them off to have people be dishonest while being the very example of everything they protest against.  They are not quite far enough along yet to properly resist so frustrating a position.

Quote

Thuley, please stop letting this drag on. Nothing positive is coming out of this and people are just flocking like vultures to a dead horse made of drama. I just ask you to take a more neutral position next time and simply lock the thread without any more notice than "things are turning ugly in here". Taking a side just adds fuel to the fire.

Lock both of these terrible topics.

Thuely locks things when he pleases.  As long as he is enjoying himself he will only lock it if his reputation is at stake.  He's demonstrated enough to show that he enjoys harassing and mocking PK during it's awkward learning stage already.

His efforts towards keeping a forum are commendable, but the execution of keeping it could very well invalidate the respect he gets for this.  He's not the worst I've seen by any means, but he is on the lower end of the scale.  I'm not fond of dishonesty and bias in admins.

[Siiddhartha]

Ralathar, on 19 December 2012 - 07:18 PM, said:

PK has a deserved rep because reps last a long time.  However the PK that earned the rep is not the same PK that exists currently.  The current PK is somewhere between good and bad, black and white, heaven and hell, but it's heading UP.  I'm just here to help that.


If PK was clearly good or bad there wouldn't be any drama.  It's the fact that it's on the road to redemption that has made it controversial.  That and the fact that some people are getting their jollies off of exploiting their old rep while acting innocent.  This thread is more or less a frustrated reaction to Thuely continuing to side with those folks.

Is that how you guys see yourselves?  Really?  Do you hold pep rallys that go something like, "OK guys... the people hate us, but only because we're so good and they're jealous of how well we are doing right now compared to how we used to be."

I never heard of pK before Hellsing started ordering Madison to move her group to where he thought they should be.  Then he joined here and I don't think you'll find a bunch of people who will agree with your statement that all of your bad press is because of how you USED to be and we just can't let it go.  You guys have acted consistently since the first post by Hellsing, so if something is changing, it's not as visible as you perceive it to be, but we DO enjoy the patronizing tones of your posts

[slash]

Toegra, on 19 December 2012 - 05:53 PM, said:

It's not broken, it's damaged.
Look at our ratings of WvW to see that.

My 2 cents:
#1
I dont have an issue with our admin

#2
I would venture to say that most guilds want to improve; practicing strategies  forming alliances to strengthen communication to achieve a specific objectives, etc. They strive for fighting, the war, the battles. They long for glory and wish only to see Maguuma beneath their boot.

Other guilds are satisfied with where we are currently and hope that over time we may improve. They might be small guilds, might be big ones. What matters is community and having fun with friends. = They care less about if we keep loosing than the other type mentioned above. Yet still, pugs and such that do not frequent this server fall under here as well. Again, they are just here to have a good time for a few hours to take their mind off of BS.

Can't we all just get along ?


These 2 types of thinking in regards to Guild Wars 2 should not be mutually exclusive. That breaks/damages communities.
They are however by definition, a divide.. separates people/guilds into categories/ style of playing.

And i know what some of you are thinking: By putting people into categories, I am somehow responsible to dividing sht. The truth is its natural to have a ying and a yang, light and dark, hardcore and casual.

SO

Moving forward,
We all take extra special care not to offend someone.
If someone is offended, say as much, explain why, and leave it up to the community to back your POV.
Give the poster time to read what you said and perhaps they might  * gasp * apologize if you explain clearly W/O UNDERTONES. ( lol, that ones tricky right )

I'll go first:
Liric Whitecloak
I apologize if my comment made you feel inferior. It was meant to illustrate 2 types of mentalities that exist in video games.
I am sorry for the later comments that were directed to make you feel inferior. I was upset at loosing our awesome lead Sun-Mon.


  slash

[Siiddhartha]

Ralathar, on 19 December 2012 - 07:30 PM, said:

It's not a simple resolution.  On one side you have a group of people who greatly desire the attention and sympathy of being the victim OR the humor of trolling PK.  On the other hand you have PK who wishes to restrain themselves but are still in the process of learning how after years of being younger, ruder, and more rash.

Again, you are playing the victim card yourself.  You say that everyone against you is pathetic and evil and whatever else while pK is the innocent victim trying so very hard to be the noble souls that they are in real life, but who are constantly being thwarted by the bad people in these forums preventing them from reaching their full potential.

[Toegra]

Chappy. When you say things that can led to being taken as a troll comment then it's not worthwhile for me to respond to.
Enjoy your stay, but as long as you attempt to attack my guild or I. Then I will not respond. Don't take a psuedo moral highground while being passive aggressive. Its contradictory.

[Thuley]

Toegra, on 19 December 2012 - 06:44 PM, said:

Chappy & the ugly duckling. I did pm [Thuley] first.

You did, and you received a reasonable explanation that you were not satisfied with.  Now you made a public thread about it and you received the same explanation as to why that thread was closed.  Just as initially predicted nothing good came from posting.

Toegra, on 19 December 2012 - 06:53 PM, said:

The point is about thuley encouraging the bad rep of pk insteaf of staying out of it or taking a [neutral] standpoint.

You may not see it this way, but I actually closed that thread to prevent PK related drama that makes PK look even worse.  If you read through this thread we are in now, do you think that PK's reputation has benefited or suffered from it.

[Toegra]

Slash thank you for a legitimate post. I appreciate you wanting to buid our server into something better.

[Chappy]

Toegra, on 19 December 2012 - 07:37 PM, said:

Chappy. When you say things that can led to being taken as a troll comment then it's not worthwhile for me to respond to.
Enjoy your stay, but as long as you attempt to attack my guild or I. Then I will not respond. Don't take a psuedo moral highground while being passive aggressive. Its contradictory.

Attack your guild???

Next time you find yourself thinking "why are people mean to me?"
I'll give you these 2 likely answers for free, and save you from making another thread:

1- They are not, just because the message is unpleasant, does not mean the messenger is malicious.
2- They are, but in response to your retaliation that was fuelled by number 1.

[Ralathar]

Apticus, on 19 December 2012 - 05:23 PM, said:

I'll save you a lot of heartache and time:
People don't like PK simply because of the immature attitude of Hellsing and xSilent and their frankly ridiculous posts on this forum.

Posts like this:


are quite simply pathetic, and that's me being generous.  Dude is quite simply the biggest loser I've ever met on the internet and there are quite a few fuckin' weirdos online.

Ironic considering that Apticus is mainly just a troll here only for his own amusement.  Honestly though I take Apticus as he is and with the knowledge of the context and the fact that he rarely posts anything he means seriously I find him amusing more often than not.

Oddly enough he decided to be serious for once and he isn't far off the mark.  This is almost precisely why people view PK as they do here.  However the failing in this logic is that it only deals with one side of the issue when it goes to placing blame and ignores context completely.  While not exonerating factors they are mitigating factors.  Much the same way as me punching someone in the mouth is inappropriate but me punching someone in the mouth for talking shit is much less inappropriate, but still inappropriate.

Quote

The best thing honestly would be to go away.  Not you specifically but your other guild mates should probably never post a thread again as each one is destined to go down in flames.

Then true to form back to trolling lol.

[Ralathar]

Siiddhartha, on 19 December 2012 - 07:31 PM, said:

Is that how you guys see yourselves?  Really?  Do you hold pep rallys that go something like, "OK guys... the people hate us, but only because we're so good and they're jealous of how well we are doing right now compared to how we used to be."

I never heard of pK before Hellsing started ordering Madison to move her group to where he thought they should be.  Then he joined here and I don't think you'll find a bunch of people who will agree with your statement that all of your bad press is because of how you USED to be and we just can't let it go.  You guys have acted consistently since the first post by Hellsing, so if something is changing, it's not as visible as you perceive it to be, but we DO enjoy the patronizing tones of your posts

You see, I'm pretty experienced at this whole forums thing.  This post is directed at me and as far as I'm concerned it's between you and me.  Therefore I can rule this out much of it as the trolling it is rather than argue with you.


I will say however that though I joined the day after Hellsing I lurked before then.  I even tried the teamspeak server several times but in those days it was always empty ;/.  I've been here since the beginning and on Ehrmy Bay since beta, though I was in the Tyrian Claws guild for a good while. It's why I came here, the coordinated unofficial furry server lol.  Strange how life goes sometimes.

I apologize if your not familiar with my name in WvW.  I'm an altaholic and the current alt count stands at 16 right now .  I wish I could display an account name in both guild and WvW but that isn't an option unfortunately.


So I'm not exactly uninformed on how everything unfolded.

[Moretha]

Irregardless of the issue that prompted the original post of this thread, in my view the problem lies in the tone or vein with which the initial posting was phrased. I could continue along this line myself with a baiting remark such as "how old is everyone here?" Ie: are we grown ups or children? Which would only serve to add to the aforementioned 'tone' and simply keep the discussion going in that direction. Which is not my intention. When someone feels the need to express their viewpoint, positive or negative, how that is stated can make a big difference in the way their words come across and are received by those who read and respond. Constructive criticism?

[Toegra]

Thuley I understand that you have to make tough decisions. But using sarcasm while closin a thread generally doesn't say that you are doing it for the betterment of the person posting.

If you want to stop trolling then stop the people doing it, not the posters.
I would say the start of this thread I posted is somewhat trolling.
I do think I should have left out the name calling.