326 replies to this topic

[Liric]

Caen, on 20 December 2012 - 11:31 PM, said:

There's one easy fix to all this, can we get a dislike button??  I hate the facebook-like interface where you can tell people you like something but yet you cant tell them how utterly fucking stupid they are by clicking on a button instead of posting responses.

I liked your post because I agree and because I find it funny to do so, given the context. =)

Edited by Liric Whitecloak, 20 December 2012 - 11:58 PM.

[Mephala]

Chappy, on 20 December 2012 - 11:55 PM, said:

I am a member of another forum that briefly had a neg button, and it got so badly abused that it was ditched within a month.
The population of that forum was probably a fair bit more 'grown up' than this one as well.
It may sound like a good idea, until somebody who does not like you follows you around the forum and negs every post you make.

We already have a report button, it appears at the bottom of every post in faded grey.

Wow, I've been missing it the whole time. Tricky little Report button...

[Ralathar]

Chappy, on 20 December 2012 - 06:55 PM, said:

I see nothing wrong with locking the original thread, as it was destined to eventually go where this one inevitably did.
The failure to lock this thread would have stemmed from the fact that this thread was a direct result of locking the last thread, and locking this one would have no doubt resulted in another even more inappropriate attempt soon after (possibly in the tone of "i'm sorry, i though this was mmmurrrica?").

The first thread locking was an example of Thuley being unable to predict the future, and acting on past experiences.
Allowing the second to continue was really the only way the author was going to learn a life lesson in PR, as previous lighter approaches had clearly failed.

Setting the initial tone could have gonna a long way in how productive the thread actually was and the threads you decide to allow and not allow effectively decides the maturity level of a forums.  Being an admin is by no means an easy job, it's fraught with responsibility and you will always be considered wrong by someone, but truly you do have a major impact on how mature or immature your forums is.

I understand that Thuely is not unduly suited for this and does not have the experience with people necessary to judge such events as of yet, but he can learn.  Unfortunately this responsibility goes with the territory if he wishes to be a good admin.


So lesson for the day:

"What's going on, why are people being mean?  I don't understand."
"Shush noob, you'll cause problems."

Somehow I don't think the person is going to stop asking and I doubt they will be happy to be shushed, though admittedly this thread was an overreaction.  Though treating Toegra with sarcasm didn't help, the admin shouldn't be baiting people whether it's deserved or not.

Edited by Ralathar, 21 December 2012 - 12:24 AM.

[The Ugly Ducky]

I would love a thumbs down voter

[Thuley]

Ralathar, on 21 December 2012 - 12:22 AM, said:

I understand that Thuely is not unduly suited for this and does not have the experience with people necessary to judge such events as of yet, but he can learn.  Unfortunately this responsibility goes with the territory if he wishes to be a good admin.

The common way to try and convince someone of something to be true even if it is not is to just repeat it over and over till folks by mere amount of repetition assume it to be true.

I have successfully participated in the administration of an Everquest server forum for a number of years and created an ran an FFXI server forum for some 5 years.  Both forums ended up with thousands of users and between 700k and 1200k posts.  That's over a million posts from folks who had no issue with the way I admin, so you will forgive me for not giving into your line of thought that the way I am doing things is not working well.

I will agree that my way isn't working well for you, but since I won't change the way I do things that only leaves you to make a choice as to whether you want to stay here or not.

Ralathar, on 21 December 2012 - 12:22 AM, said:

Though treating Toegra with sarcasm didn't help, the admin shouldn't be baiting people whether it's deserved or not.

Same thing here.  Telling someone "ask those who have an issue directly, especially since they are known to you" isn't sarcasm no matter how often you write that it is.

[Ralathar]

Thuley, on 21 December 2012 - 12:51 AM, said:

I have successfully participated in the administration of an Everquest server forum for a number of years and created an ran an FFXI server forum for some 5 years.  Both forums ended up with thousands of users and between 700k and 1200k posts.  That's over a million posts from folks who had no issue with the way I admin, so you will forgive me for not giving into your line of thought that the way I am doing things is not working well.

I will agree that my way isn't working well for you, but since I won't change the way I do things that only leaves you to make a choice as to whether you want to stay here or not.

I've also known a great many large forums who have had bad admins and moderators, numbers has nothing to do with things.  Diablo 3 forums comes to mind for a high profile example.  Though I can promise you with numbers that high you are lying by saying nobody had any issues with you.  It's a given you'll always have some detractors if nothing else by virtue of being authority.

Quote

Same thing here.  Telling someone "ask those who have an issue directly, especially since they are known to you" isn't sarcasm no matter how often you write that it is.

I meant your initial responses to this thread, all in the first page mind you.

Assertion by repetition is indeed a logical fallacy, but so is the ever common and overused straw man you have utilized.  I am not unfamiliar with the many logical fallacies.  (and boy have we had alot here)  I was referring to your responses to this thread in the initial page, adding fuel to the fire as it were:

Thuley, on 19 December 2012 - 05:30 AM, said:

Godwin's Law was invoked in the first post, nicely done.  Moving this to off-topic.



You probably missed reading the first post in this thread: https://www.ehmrybay...n-the-internet/

Mocking him.

Thuley, on 19 December 2012 - 05:45 AM, said:

Thank you for your comment, rest assured that it will receive the appropriate attention.
If you are hoping for something else you will be disappointed.

Mocking him again.

Thuley, on 19 December 2012 - 06:17 AM, said:

xSilent, you may want to work on lying less in map chat, unless you just make a habit of lying in general.
I didn't delete any of your threads.

Attacking XSilent.  Right or wrong, you are still attacking.  Defense does not involve the defamation of another person but instead the edification of oneself.







So within the first page you have thoroughly set aside your responsibilities as admin and acted every bit as immaturely as any member of PK you might attempt to condemn, or anyone else in this thread.  After all by your own admission you are "non-emotional" so your snarky or angry comments would not resemble someone elses.  Makes it a bit easier for you to say you are not angry or responding emotionally when vs people who are much more emotive with their feelings doesn't it?

After all your range of emotions wouldn't fit the norm or be near as easily identifiable as they are much more suppressed or denied, but still present.  But ya know, I think you were angry and emotional.  Being suppressed or denied does not make it not exist, it just means that your personal version of angry or emotional is not within the "normal" boundaries.


As an administrator you are supposed to attempt to be above this type of petty behavior.  As a person this makes you nothing more than a hypocrite.

Edited by Ralathar, 21 December 2012 - 02:23 AM.

[Thuley]

I think it's fair to say that what we have here is a difference in opinion.  No one is going to change anyone's mind on this, and I am fine with that.

One more thing to add though:

Ralathar, on 21 December 2012 - 02:15 AM, said:

I've also known a great many large forums who have had bad admins and moderators, numbers has nothing to do with things.

What numbers mean is that there are a large number of people who find value in the forum as they come back to it and interact with other people.  My point was that my way to admin, whether you feel it's bad or not, ensured that there was a high level of participation for what is a very small niche in the global gaming community.

Those thousands of people who either despite or because of the way I admin decided to participated in the forums had a better entertainment experience for it as opposed to playing on a server that didn't have such a resource.

If you make a reasonable complaint about something then I will look at it and decide what to do, but once decided it's decided, then the only option is to move on.  There is no endless dragging it out, rehashing old points, etc. etc, it's done.

[Apticus]

"Defense does not involve the defamation of another person but instead the edification of oneself."

LOL, I reckon we got ourselves an intellectual here

[Snype Cyclos]

LOL.

So much validation being sought.

Does anybody else just... not... care? I need to know so I can feel like I'm right.

[Jillabee]

I still fail to see the issue with Thuley's logic of shutting down the original post. If someone has a problem with you and your guild, it's better to ask that person privately why. If they don't give you a response or if they skirt the issue, then you should ask leadership in the guild why people don't like the guild. Clearly the guild's leadership knows why people don't like the guild if  the guild says it's working on changing its reputation. Personally, I knew nothing of PK because I don't frequent WvW, however starting threads like this has really colored my opinion. All this thread does is make PK look like a bunch of whiners who can't handle a single thread being shut down.

[Ralathar]

Thuley, on 21 December 2012 - 02:55 AM, said:

I think it's fair to say that what we have here is a difference in opinion.  No one is going to change anyone's mind on this, and I am fine with that.

One more thing to add though:



What numbers mean is that there are a large number of people who find value in the forum as they come back to it and interact with other people.  My point was that my way to admin, whether you feel it's bad or not, ensured that there was a high level of participation for what is a very small niche in the global gaming community.

Those thousands of people who either despite or because of the way I admin decided to participated in the forums had a better entertainment experience for it as opposed to playing on a server that didn't have such a resource.

If you make a reasonable complaint about something then I will look at it and decide what to do, but once decided it's decided, then the only option is to move on.  There is no endless dragging it out, rehashing old points, etc. etc, it's done.

Right as I said: "Nu-uh, you're wrong, this is my house and if you don't like it get out.".


As far as your value vs participation, that only has significance if there is competition.  To the best of my knowledge there is no other Ehmry Bay forum or TS.  Both of those things have a value in and of themselves, you are merely a modifier of that value.

What you were or what you did has no relevance except for what it has made you today.  It's your current actions that determine your worth, not your past, otherwise PK would be totally screwed hehe.  (Not that our current actions are representative of what we should be at all).  Some people forget that and hold onto the past, whether that past be good or bad.

Lets live in the now and what we are all doing now.  We need to do better, we need to be less rude, we need to be less confrontational.  Others needs this as well but we are all that we can control.  Can you at the very least say the same even if it means you must admit fault somewhere or another?  Or will you attempt to admit fault selectively and thus invalidate the entire point?

I mean I know "it's your house" and all and we play by "your rules".  But wouldn't that just a method to run from your own flaws and weaknesses?  Because even if you are truly 100% non-emotional that means you would lack at the very least empathy, which is critical for any field that deals with alot of people.

Edited by Ralathar, 21 December 2012 - 05:50 AM.

[Ralathar]

Jillabee, on 21 December 2012 - 04:08 AM, said:

I still fail to see the issue with Thuley's logic of shutting down the original post. If someone has a problem with you and your guild, it's better to ask that person privately why. If they don't give you a response or if they skirt the issue, then you should ask leadership in the guild why people don't like the guild. Clearly the guild's leadership knows why people don't like the guild if  the guild says it's working on changing its reputation. Personally, I knew nothing of PK because I don't frequent WvW, however starting threads like this has really colored my opinion. All this thread does is make PK look like a bunch of whiners who can't handle a single thread being shut down.

Just by reading through the thread you can see many references to continuing events and drama.  This is the result of over a month of stuff, not the lockdown of 1 thread.  It was an overreaction and presented us in a poor light because we handled it poorly.  That is quite a fair statement.  People are frustrated at being called out for stuff while other people do it and get backup from friends and the admin.  They are not yet adept at containing themselves and behaving.

This thread should have never happened and I apologize for our part in it.  I don't know what is going to happen in the future though because others equally guilty are allowed the walk away without the same judgements via the power of societal cliques and social politics.  It doesn't bode well for the future coordination of Ehmry Bay when everyone is willing to put themselves and their own personal pride first, on all sides.

PK has the power to make this happen by swallowing their pride and working with everyone else despite this.  I will be working towards that.  But it doesn't make alot of what has happened right, nor does "winning" an argument make someone just.  If we manage that it'll just mean after all the talk of elitism, rudeness, ego, and etc we finally did become the better person.  Hopefully we see that day.

Wish us luck, we will need it.

For anyone involved, PK or not, that is not recalcitrant or willing to change their ways:  I suggest pity.  You have no idea how much they sabotage their own lives, but in fairness neither do they.  (This of course grants exception to when people are joking around and others are being oversensitive)

Edited by Ralathar, 21 December 2012 - 05:47 AM.

[Thuley]

Ralathar, on 21 December 2012 - 05:33 AM, said:

But wouldn't that just a method to run from your own flaws and weaknesses?  Because even if you are truly 100% non-emotional that means you would lack at the very least empathy.

I am a deeply flawed individual, and I do often lack empathy and most other emotions.
No, I am not trolling, I am serious.  Really, I am.

[Ralathar]

Thuley, on 21 December 2012 - 05:48 AM, said:

I am a deeply flawed individual, and I do often lack empathy and most other emotions.
No, I am not trolling, I am serious.  Really, I am.

Then do me a favor.  Don't troll PK when they get out of hand, it doesn't help.  That at least will be step forwards.  Hopefully you follow it with another step.  Hopefully we make steps forward as well.  Maybe we won't necessarily walk towards the future together, but we CAN work towards the same goals instead of competing in wordplay on whether or not Thuley sucks.

Every side involved can curb their tongue and help direct the conversation somewhere more productive by not getting involved in arguments, mudslinging, and the like.  Because PK might be full of fire and passion for WvW, but they couldn't have carried on this argument by themselves.  They need people who care enough to bicker with for drama or an argument to happen .

And if people get out of hand.  Then *smackies* bad PK, BUT also *smackies* stop trolling the monkies X people.

Edited by Ralathar, 21 December 2012 - 06:07 AM.

[Heylo]

Snype Cyclos, on 21 December 2012 - 03:40 AM, said:

LOL.

So much validation being sought.

Does anybody else just... not... care? I need to know so I can feel like I'm right.

There are too many words artistically placed in sentences for me to care to read any more..so I'm with you.

[Reina Takayama]

why is this thread still going on? thuley is a communist. period.

[Heylo]

Reina Takayama, on 21 December 2012 - 12:35 PM, said:

why is this thread still going on? thuley is a communist. period.

No. He's a robot. He said so himself.

[Steambeard]

Heylo, on 21 December 2012 - 12:49 PM, said:

No. He's a robot. He said so himself.

Hey now, let's stick to the lore. He's a golem.

[Siiddhartha]

powered by steam and disappointment

[NullMad]

I was planing to accuse him of being a golem but wasn't entirely sure on the lore of golemancy. I know that Inquest golems run on souls, but how do normal ones operate?
We must go far and wide to find an adequate in-lore explanation now.